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Thread: Fallen Ministers - Entitled to Full Resoration?

  1. #121
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    Absolutely not! When a man who claims one of the five fold ministry gifts of the church, commits such a dark and evil sin, It is not just between him and God but it is between him the church and God. His actions affect the whole church and we have every right to inspect the fruit. I have seen nothing but a whimpering cry that "I am innocent" and that tells me nothing.
    Today, adultery is not considered a major sin, yet it is one of the worst sins that can be committed. On a scale of 1-10, it is a 7 or 8. It cannot be committed without affecting others. So I say for this man to sit down. If he came to my meetings, I would sit him down where he belongs.

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  3. #122
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    Absolutely not! When a man who claims one of the five fold ministry gifts of the church, commits such a dark and evil sin, It is not just between him and God but it is between him the church and God. His actions affect the whole church and we have every right to inspect the fruit. I have seen nothing but a whimpering cry that "I am innocent" and that tells me nothing.
    Today, adultery is not considered a major sin, yet it is one of the worst sins that can be committed. On a scale of 1-10, it is a 7 or 8. It cannot be committed without affecting others. So I say for this man to sit down. If he came to my meetings, I would sit him down where he belongs.
    ALL sin is dark and evil Nikos...No, it's between him and GOD and the church needs to align with GOD's decision on the matter. Now can you prove GOD has stated he is disqualified for ministry?

    When David had sex with a married woman committing both adultery and then moving on to MURDER, God forgave him and gave him and Bathsheba Solomon for the son to inherit the throne...

    My guess is that if you had been alive back then you would have decided David was disqualified as the leader of Israel much less that Bathsheba would be the mother of the son of Jesus' lineage..and yet GOD....

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  5. #123
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    If the church can't hold the moral high ground in this area, what say you in the area of homosexuality and other moral failings.

    Same attitude? Immediate restoration to ministry even without withdrawing from the sin? Truthfully, I'm hearing "hyper-grace" being preached up in here.

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  7. #124
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    If the church can't hold the moral high ground in this area, what say you in the area of homosexuality and other moral failings.
    I say preach repentance...that IS the high ground...
    The message of the church is to state what is sin, state repentance is necessary for forgiveness and reconciliation...whether it's adultery, homosexuality or other moral failings...

    When a man or woman truly repents and the LORD restores them to ministry who is man to arrogantly reject him? Scripture wars us to remain humble lest we fall in the same manner...pride and a haughty judgmental spirit are the MOST likely to trip and become ensnared because in reality, it already has.

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  9. #125
    Of course he has...and others, as well. That is what they don't understand, Quest. You and I take that VERY SERIOUS, and understand the consequences of sowing that sort of thing. But I highly doubt you will be able to "reason" here. They will just start to pull out things to throw out at you and judge you about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    By definition brother that is JUDGEMENT ....you just stated that you have passed judgment on him.

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  11. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    I say preach repentance...that IS the high ground...
    The message of the church is to state what is sin, state repentance is necessary for forgiveness and reconciliation...whether it's adultery, homosexuality or other moral failings...

    When a man or woman truly repents and the LORD restores them to ministry who is man to arrogantly reject him? Scripture wars us to remain humble lest we fall in the same manner...pride and a haughty judgmental spirit are the MOST likely to trip and become ensnared because in reality, it already has.
    Quest.....don't go around "cursing" people by stating scriptural principles, now!

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  13. #127
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    I know you came late to the discussion Quest but this revolves around restoration to ministry with out repentance (deed and thought) of adultery.

    By your measure, as long as a person is "sorry" for his behaviour there is no foul.

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  15. #128
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.


    That scripture tells to be careful around the wrongdoer, that we don't become tempted to do the same thing they did. There is no admonition there to avoid judging the sin.

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  17. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    If the church can't hold the moral high ground in this area, what say you in the area of homosexuality and other moral failings.

    Same attitude? Immediate restoration to ministry even without withdrawing from the sin? Truthfully, I'm hearing "hyper-grace" being preached up in here.
    I think restoration of a fallen brother who has repented IS the high moral ground. God's grace IS the high moral ground -- I can think of nothing higher or more moral than God, who is love. It is love the fulfills the law of God.

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  19. #130
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffDoles View Post
    I think restoration of a fallen brother who has repented IS the high moral ground. God's grace IS the high moral ground -- I can think of nothing higher or more moral than God, who is love. It is love the fulfills the law of God.
    Gods love prescribes ministry standards in His word. Fairly light standards BTW, you could read through them and basically say "you must be a decent person", it's not a heavy yoke.

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