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Thread: Fallen Ministers - Entitled to Full Resoration?

  1. #91
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    Since sin is sin as you say and all is covered by Grace then it really doesn't make any difference what the sin is. You say, " why Nikos, don't you know that there are all kinds of people that have ministries, eg. ex-porn and ex-murderers, etc., so what is the difference!
    Now if you are correct, then we should be able to bring up any sin and if the person is saved it would not make any diifference to you.
    Now I am first to agree that Grace can save anyone. But there are sins that are severe to the point of disqualifying ones self from ministry leadership.
    Suppose your pastor pre conversion regularly exhumed corpses from the graveyard and sexually violated them. Or suppose he kidnapped small children, starved them, maimed them, and made them believe that their parents were dead. Or suppose he framed minority men for crimes he had committed himself so that they would spend years in prison away from their families. Would you ever want such a man pastoring your church with youth and children?
    I don't think you would. But not because you doubt the power of God's Grace. For we agree, God's Grace can redeem reprobate sinners whom we regard as hopeless. But while evil people of darkness can be miraculously saved, we still don't want them tucking in our kids at night.
    Now these sins are horrible and scary,( I tried to think of the worst sins, like ISIS, to show that it is the severity of sin that is the issue and not the Grace of God) yet I think that adultery ranks right up there. All we have from TB is his testimony and his life, which we can only see a part of, the public part.
    All of these sins can be forgiven. But how can we be sure of this man's relationship to God. Adultery is a terrible sin. He needs to sit down and let others lead. He can find a supporting place in the pew.

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  3. #92
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    You can save the keyboard energy Nikos, the leader has spoken, his followers will not be moved.

    Ya know A.J., you could have saved us a few topics and a hundred or so posts if you would have disclosed up front.

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  5. #93
    Frozen Chozen Admin A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    You can save the keyboard energy Nikos, the leader has spoken, his followers will not be moved.

    Ya know A.J., you could have saved us a few topics and a hundred or so posts if you would have disclosed up front.
    Disclosed what?

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    FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

  7. #94
    Nikos, to answer your question.

    I don't know.


    I know there was a guy who claimed to have been a wizard, or warlock or some such and claimed to have done human sacrfice, but he was an evangelist. Now, I, personally, never heard him.. and I don't know if it was all hype.

    I don't know what I'd do if someone, a professing believer, had done any of the things you listed. I probably would expect someone who had trouble with child porn to avoid being around kids. I'd expect someone who'd been in an unsavory group to denounce that group. I'd expect someone who'd been unfaithful to his wife to not do it anymore.

    then again, look at Israel with God.. she deserted Him and was unfaithful continually..

    Look at us, we desert and are unfaitful continually.

    We may not do any of the *BIGGIES*.. the ones we can see.. but we still engage in sin daily..

    so, it comes back to, how much are we willing to give mercy and grace?


    John, I think your argument (that one should have broken it off and not married the one who'd they'd been having the affair with) has merit.

    I'm conflicted on that.. But, again, I look at David.. he married her.

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  9. #95
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    I know I said I was stepping out of the thread, but here's the deal.... It's been 7 years since the divorce and 5 years or more that he's been back in ministry and walking things out. How do you know TB hasn't "genuinely repented" in that time?
    I dont know that but I find it questionable based on the evidence presented in this thread. His refusal to participate until after remarried suggests that he was simply riding it out so he could have it both ways. Both a new wife and approval from his peers.

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  11. #96
    1 Corinthians 6:
    15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

    16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

    17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

    18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

    Apparently joining in sexual sin is considered pretty serious.

    As to new believers who come from deep sin to publicly speaking for Christ, they were in that sin before Christ, TB was on a world platform as an evangelist, while he was straying to a very dangerous path.

    James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

    15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

    Totally different circumstances.

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  13. #97
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Colonel and Curly Sue bring up relevant points that need to be considered

    Colonel is right as it does seem that TB willfully got married and THEN submitted to restoration. This does suggest a deliberate act of planning and scheming which is far worse than if a minister committed adultery and then submitted to discipline. Once he was remarried it was obvious no one could tell him he had to divorce his second wife - I find that behaviour concerning as he knew he would not have to reconcile with his first wife

    Curly Sue brings up sexual immorality which if we read the NT impartially is clearly taught by Paul that this sin is more grievous than others. We really can't say all sins are equal when Paul makes an issue of it.


    At the end of the day ...none of the above are the unforgivable sins and TB is totally cleansed and forgiven

    Everyone then has to decide whether they want to accept his ministry (which is different to his salvation).......IMO God wants us to embrace him as a brother but not necessarily embrace his ministry due to his past actions

    If our conscience can or can't accept his ministry then we should flow with that

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  15. #98
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    It is conceivable that Bentley could have schemed like that and then later repented of the scheming. What now ? Should he divorce his new wife since the relationship is obviously based on willful adultery ? Does he get to "repent" his way to where the new marriage is suddenly legitimate ? If so, how easy would it be to believe that that is what he is actually doing rather than expanding the scheme further (by admitting to the original scheme, knowing that they will at least be forced to accept his repentance from that) ?

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  17. #99
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Sin is always messy and leaves alot of rubbish in its wake

    There have been other Christian couples who have willfully divorced and remarried for no legitimate biblical reasons knowing that they could 'repent' and start afresh with their new spouse.

    Obviously the innocent spouse left behind is the victim in all the deception

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  19. #100
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    Disclosed what?
    That Rick Joyner had fully orchestrated and embraced TB's "restoration".

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