Thread: Preterists (in any flavour)

Originally Posted by Colonel

Thats part of it, that everything is subjected to Jesus and then he is all in all and sin can no longer exist because it cannot exist in him.

I guess the question is this -- is Colossians 1:16 referring to the first creation, or the second? Because if that's referring to the first, your premise is faulty. (and actually, John 1:3 seems to be referring to the old creation).

Of course, if it's referring to the new creation, or even to both new and old, all of dispensationalism is faulty.

I believe Jesus has set a time for final victory, not that he is waiting for the Church to perfect itself and rid this world of every evil.

Originally Posted by Colonel

I believe Jesus has set a time for final victory, not that he is waiting for the Church to perfect itself and rid this world of every evil.

The Commission was given to us, not to Him. So was authority.

Originally Posted by KaySharpe

A question like that always throws me for a loop because the bulk of Scripture answers your question.

He's the King now, He rules forever and His Kingdom will never end, He's seated on the throne now in fulfillment of prophecy, He's also seated upon the throne of our hearts, He said His Kingdom is now, told Pilate that He is the King, received the Kingdom in its fullness upon resurrection, gave us the keys to the Kingdom (how could He do that, if they weren't His to give?), gave us the Kingdom, rebuilt the tabernacle of David so that all of mankind can seek the Lord, He's King of King and Lord of Lords ... and yes, we rule and reign with Him ... we are kings and priests unto God ... NOW.

I might add one verse of interest (I can provide scripture for everything above, but you should recognize each one by the text between the commas if you know the Word, which I know you and Bookie especially do) ... most dispensationalists would agree that Revelation 2-3 were written to "the churches" we live in today and they super-spiritualize those verses so that THEIR church could be the lukewarm church, etc. So Revelation 3:21 says "to him who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne" ... He's already seated on the throne. He's not up there playing tiddleywinks.

Also consider that Zechariah 6:12-13 says that Jesus will build the temple of the Lord (that would be us, now) and He will bear the honour and sit and RULE on His throne...

"But of the Son He says, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His Kingdom" (Heb 1:8) (tons of OT prophecy to back that up)...

Why is the world in such a disastrous mess, then? Because most of the church has been taught that we're not supposed to be doing the ruling-and-reigning thing ...

He must reign (NOW) until He has put all enemies under His feet. Who must reign? Jesus. Who puts them under His feet? Jesus. Who does He use to do that with? Us. The Kingdom is at hand. We are kings and priests unto God with the authority to rule and reign with Him, right here, right now, making earth be as Heaven within our sphere of influence. Now.

That's not hyper-spiritual ... it's co-labouring.

here's an interesting turn of events!

I wholly agree He is King, forever, and He is most certainly sovereign of the universe. Yes, He is on the throne, but yes, He also hasn't brought satan to heel yet.

It seems that Revelation is actual time and place events. Jesus coming on a white horse.. Jesus, actually, physically, reigining here. The New Jerusalem being established. etc.. But, of course, since it was a vision it's not wholly clear to us.

It will be interesting, when it all plays out, to see which take on it is the more accurate one.

Another topic that good folks have disagreed about since He was here the first time, and will continue to disagree about until He comes again.

Originally Posted by Femme*

here's an interesting turn of events!

I wholly agree He is King, forever, and He is most certainly sovereign of the universe. Yes, He is on the throne, but yes, He also hasn't brought satan to heel yet.

What, that we agree on something? LOL

So ... is the Queen of England the Queen Mum? She hasn't eradicated evil yet, and nobody discounts that she is the Queen ...

It seems that Revelation is actual time and place events. Jesus coming on a white horse.. Jesus, actually, physically, reigining here. The New Jerusalem being established. etc.. But, of course, since it was a vision it's not wholly clear to us.

How often do we see visions in the Bible that are not symbolic? (And knowing a lot of prophetic people, I would say that is true to this day. About 99% of the visions I have are symbolic; seers SEE but usually not "real events as they unfold". Seeing in the Spirit is almost always symbolic.

Originally Posted by KaySharpe

The Commission was given to us, not to Him. So was authority.

And we hasten his coming by fulfilling that commission, per 2 Peter 3 or so.

Originally Posted by KaySharpe

What, that we agree on something? LOL

So ... is the Queen of England the Queen Mum? She hasn't eradicated evil yet, and nobody discounts that she is the Queen ...

(actually, she's not the Queen Mum.. that would be if she was the mom of the Queen, or King... so she'd have to abdicate.)
but I get what you're saying. I wholly agree that Jesus IS King, it seems, at this time, He's still allowing satan his mini-reign here on earth.

How often do we see visions in the Bible that are not symbolic? (And knowing a lot of prophetic people, I would say that is true to this day. About 99% of the visions I have are symbolic; seers SEE but usually not "real events as they unfold". Seeing in the Spirit is almost always symbolic.

Somewhat.. it's been a very interesting study. Most assuredly John was trying to discribe what he was seeing, which had to be beyond difficult for him!

As I said, I'm betting there will be a lot of.. "OOH! THAT's what that meant!!" going on as events occur.

Originally Posted by Femme*

(actually, she's not the Queen Mum.. that would be if she was the mom of the Queen, or King... so she'd have to abdicate.)
but I get what you're saying. I wholly agree that Jesus IS King, it seems, at this time, He's still allowing satan his mini-reign here on earth.

If we've been given authority and the command by our King to deal with satan, and we don't ... that's a testimony of His patience with His Bride, and of how He won't go back on His word ... not "allowing" satan to reign. We can't pretend that John 12:31 didn't happen...

Somewhat.. it's been a very interesting study. Most assuredly John was trying to discribe what he was seeing, which had to be beyond difficult for him!

As I said, I'm betting there will be a lot of.. "OOH! THAT's what that meant!!" going on as events occur.

When I have visions, I might see purple lollypops, elephants riding bicycles, and your great-grandmother. If I wrote that down, or told you that, I'd be branded as insane. But the vision might be about ministry work to children in India and that it's a lasting legacy.

Besides, Revelation was written that way for a reason ... spelling it out in plain Greek would've been too dangerous. It was an uninterpreted vision that really needed no interpretation because the readers would have recognized the symbolism.

Preterism is a false belief system we must put down consistently.

Originally Posted by Lively Stone

Preterism is a false belief system we must put down consistently.

I would say that of the rapture theory ... it's false, and a thief.