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Thread: Do you feel jaded about prophecies and prophecy ?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    What book is that taken from ?
    Didache

  2. #22
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Cant use that to establish that prophets should be exempt from having their prophecies tested based on their track records, when the actual Word makes no exceptions :

    1 Cor 14:29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Cant use that to establish that prophets should be exempt from having their prophecies tested based on their track records, when the actual Word makes no exceptions :

    1 Cor 14:29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge.
    Other prophets judge.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Two verses later :

    31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged

    There is nothing that suggests that prophets are judged only by other prophets. The practice of accepting a prophecy based on the track record of the prophet rather than based on the Word and the testimony of the Spirit merely elevates this prophet to a status of infallibility or it elevates this body of prophets that are to judge - to a status of infallibility. The Word and the Holy Spirit have infallible truth, no man or body of men has.

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    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Two verses later :

    31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged
    Taking a rabbit trail, another part of that verse has always interested me:

    "...that all may learn..."

    When was the last time someone prophesied and you actually learned something. Speaking of being 'jaded', maybe most of what we hear really isn't true prophecy.

    Also, there is one more way to look at this 'learning' too. I used to read the Amplified version of 1 Cor. 14, and everywhere it said "prophesy", it always adds, "interpret the divine will and purpose in inspired preaching and teaching". I would read that and think that the translators were trying to 'de-supernaturalize' the gift of prophecy into just teaching and preaching, and that very well may have been their purpose). But the more I read and meditated that chapter (and the more I experienced it in my preaching and teaching), I began to change my mind, due to other revelation from the chapter. It's not JUST 'inspired preaching and teaching', but that's an aspect of prophesying that has been misunderstood or not realized widely by the prophetic I believe.

    Verse 6 of chapter 14 says, "6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?"

    What Paul is saying here is, "what does it profit you that I come speaking to you in tongues, unless I share with you the understanding that was imparted to me from praying in tongues. When I pray in tongues, it produces revelation, knowledge, prophesying and doctrine in my life. So it profits you that I come to you speaking in tongues if I share with you the understanding that came from praying in tongues, and these are the form the understanding takes: revelation, knowledge, prophesying and doctrine."

    So for instance, say I've been praying in tongues, and the Spirit has imparted some doctrine to me by revelation because I have been praying in tongues. When I get up and share that understanding with the congregation, whether I preach it, or teach it, etc, then I am prophesying (inspired utterance in my known language), even though what I am sharing didn't start with a 'thus sayeth the Lord'. So I share that revelation, that is 'prophesying', and the others judge what I've just spoken as to the scriptural correctness of it.

    I've also noticed over the years, that when I preach or teach, I will begin to teach beyond my own knowledge. Things just begin to come out of my mouth I didn't even know myself. Or things will come out that I already knew, but the Holy Spirit puts them together in a way where with my mind I'm standing there thinking 'hey, this is pretty good stuff' while I am actually teaching it. Well that is inspired utterance. That is prophecy and prophesying. It didn't start with a 'thus sayeth the Lord', but it's still prophesy. It's inspired by the Holy Spirit and the congregation is being uplifted, edified, and they are learning.

    Anyway, I think most of us have prophesied far more than we have realized because we've failed to see what Paul was really speaking of concerning prophecy in the manner he is addressing it in chapter 14. I think we've really missed the full aspect of prophecy as Paul is talking about there and because of we really are missing a blessing where this gift is concerned. Remember, the simple gift of prophecy is forth-telling, not fore-telling.

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  8. #26
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Interesting take on verse 6. Verses 7-13 elaborate that noone learns anything from hearing us speak in tongues except if we interpret them, which makes that the direct meaning of verse 6. It also suggests that we ourselves profit at the mind level by interpreting our own tongues when praying in our prayer chamber, so that would be the main source of revelation in relation to tongues, and then we may later bring that to others. Since our spirit prays when we speak in tongues it may be argued that it produces revelation at the heart level rather than the mind level, then we may be able to interpret that spiritual understanding into our own words which may then benefit others.

  9. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Taking a rabbit trail, another part of that verse has always interested me:

    "...that all may learn..."

    When was the last time someone prophesied and you actually learned something. Speaking of being 'jaded', maybe most of what we hear really isn't true prophecy.

    Also, there is one more way to look at this 'learning' too. I used to read the Amplified version of 1 Cor. 14, and everywhere it said "prophesy", it always adds, "interpret the divine will and purpose in inspired preaching and teaching". I would read that and think that the translators were trying to 'de-supernaturalize' the gift of prophecy into just teaching and preaching, and that very well may have been their purpose). But the more I read and meditated that chapter (and the more I experienced it in my preaching and teaching), I began to change my mind, due to other revelation from the chapter. It's not JUST 'inspired preaching and teaching', but that's an aspect of prophesying that has been misunderstood or not realized widely by the prophetic I believe.

    Verse 6 of chapter 14 says, "6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?"

    What Paul is saying here is, "what does it profit you that I come speaking to you in tongues, unless I share with you the understanding that was imparted to me from praying in tongues. When I pray in tongues, it produces revelation, knowledge, prophesying and doctrine in my life. So it profits you that I come to you speaking in tongues if I share with you the understanding that came from praying in tongues, and these are the form the understanding takes: revelation, knowledge, prophesying and doctrine."

    So for instance, say I've been praying in tongues, and the Spirit has imparted some doctrine to me by revelation because I have been praying in tongues. When I get up and share that understanding with the congregation, whether I preach it, or teach it, etc, then I am prophesying (inspired utterance in my known language), even though what I am sharing didn't start with a 'thus sayeth the Lord'. So I share that revelation, that is 'prophesying', and the others judge what I've just spoken as to the scriptural correctness of it.

    I've also noticed over the years, that when I preach or teach, I will begin to teach beyond my own knowledge. Things just begin to come out of my mouth I didn't even know myself. Or things will come out that I already knew, but the Holy Spirit puts them together in a way where with my mind I'm standing there thinking 'hey, this is pretty good stuff' while I am actually teaching it. Well that is inspired utterance. That is prophecy and prophesying. It didn't start with a 'thus sayeth the Lord', but it's still prophesy. It's inspired by the Holy Spirit and the congregation is being uplifted, edified, and they are learning.

    Anyway, I think most of us have prophesied far more than we have realized because we've failed to see what Paul was really speaking of concerning prophecy in the manner he is addressing it in chapter 14. I think we've really missed the full aspect of prophecy as Paul is talking about there and because of we really are missing a blessing where this gift is concerned. Remember, the simple gift of prophecy is forth-telling, not fore-telling.
    Actually in the strictest sense inspired teaching is just that. It may have some spontaneous revelation injected into it but in the way it's coming forth it's not prophecy. Prophecy has a higher Anointing than the teaching Anointing and can be felt as it comes and goes. Brother Goodwin and Brother Hagin also said that when this happens during a sermon the speaker should identify it as prophecy so the hearers will know it was of a different Anointing. I am not trying to split hairs in this, just sharing what I have been taught. Interesting thought here also. Brother Hagin said he would teach out of the Prophets office and not of the Teacher. He said that's why his teachings seemed to have a higher Anointing on them.

  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Interesting take on verse 6. Verses 7-13 elaborate that noone learns anything from hearing us speak in tongues except if we interpret them, which makes that the direct meaning of verse 6. It also suggests that we ourselves profit at the mind level by interpreting our own tongues when praying in our prayer chamber, so that would be the main source of revelation in relation to tongues, and then we may later bring that to others. Since our spirit prays when we speak in tongues it may be argued that it produces revelation at the heart level rather than the mind level, then we may be able to interpret that spiritual understanding into our own words which may then benefit others.
    Totally agree.

    Notice how he words it...EXCEPT. In other words, I can come to you speaking in tongues if I do it according the exception, the exception being that I interpret (v5), and that interpretation comes in the form of revelation, knowledge, prophesying, and doctrine. In other words, verse 6 is a clarification of verse 5, and how to execute verse 5 properly in the setting of a congregation. Notice he uses except again in verse 6 (this is why I like the KJV for these verses. It's not this clear in other translations/paraphrases).

    Another thing about interpreting our tongues, that doesn't necessarily mean I speak out the interpretation at the moment I am praying in tongues per se. I can be up in front of a congregation teaching, and begin to speak by revelation, etc, and that is the interpretation coming forth of what I have already prayed into my spirit from praying in tongues. Now I have come to the congregation speaking in tongues, but I did it by revelation (v6). Or in other words, the revelation that came from my personal devotional life praying in tongues. Because of this, I think more Christians have operated in interpretation of their tongues than they realize, because they were expecting it to come in the traditional manner that the Charismatics have usually taught, I speak out loud in tongues then I speak out loud in my native language the interpretation of what I just spoke in tongues.

    Obviously this is all dependent on a person actually praying in tongues in their personal life, where the revelation, knowledge, prophesying, and doctrine are all a direct result of having prayed in the Spirit consistently. As well of course as bringing forth the 'tongues and interpretation' in a service as we traditionally know it.

  11. #29

    Proverbs 20:5
    Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out.

    Proverbs 18:4
    The words of a man's mouth are as deep waters, and the wellspring of wisdom as a flowing brook.


    "Speaking by the Spirit; not just speaking words out of your own mind or thinking, but speaking by the Spirit. Words that are inspired by the Spirit of God. Words that well up from within you, out of your spirit; given to you by the Holy Spirit. Those words spoken boldly bring forth great happenings. Speaking by the Spirit, and so the Glory of God shall come into manifestation. And some will see it like a cloud that hangs over the heads of the people. Others may not see anything but they sense the mighty move of His Spirit."

    "Speaking by His Spirit, yielding your tongue unto the Holy Ghost. But you see, taking time to pray in the Spirit. Taking time to pray in other tongues will get you tuned up; will edify you and get your tongue hooked up to your spirit so that when He who dwells in your spirit can give you utterance, then He takes over. And you speak out what He says, not what you think. Speak out what He wants. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. And so the Spirit of Seeing and the Spirit of Knowing into a greater manifestation shall come.

    But all of these. All nine of these manifestations, all of these worketh that one in the self-same Spirit. And at the same time, the inspirational gifts. Men, women, speaking by the Spirit. By prophecy -- inspired utterance. By tongues and interpretations; shall bring forth marvelous statements and bring to pass and bring into being in this sense realm where men can see and know the operation of the Spirit of God and the manifestation of the Spirit of God and the demonstration of the Spirit of God. So rejoice ye and be ye glad. (Ha, Ha, laughter) Hallelujah."

    - Prophecy delivered by Kenneth E. Hagin at the Winter Bible Seminar on February 20, 1997:
    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity (futility) of their mind, having the understanding darkened...
    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly...
    (Psalm 1)

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  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodismyJudge View Post

    Proverbs 20:5
    Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out.

    Proverbs 18:4
    The words of a man's mouth are as deep waters, and the wellspring of wisdom as a flowing brook.


    “Speaking by the Spirit; not just speaking words out of your own mind or thinking, but speaking by the Spirit. Words that are inspired by the Spirit of God. Words that well up from within you, out of your spirit; given to you by the Holy Spirit. Those words spoken boldly bring forth great happenings. Speaking by the Spirit, and so the Glory of God shall come into manifestation. And some will see it like a cloud that hangs over the heads of the people. Others may not see anything but they sense the mighty move of His Spirit.”

    “Speaking by His Spirit, yielding your tongue unto the Holy Ghost. But you see, taking time to pray in the Spirit. Taking time to pray in other tongues will get you tuned up; will edify you and get your tongue hooked up to your spirit so that when He who dwells in your spirit can give you utterance, then He takes over. And you speak out what He says, not what you think. Speak out what He wants. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. And so the Spirit of Seeing and the Spirit of Knowing into a greater manifestation shall come.

    But all of these. All nine of these manifestations, all of these worketh that one in the self-same Spirit. And at the same time, the inspirational gifts. Men, women, speaking by the Spirit. By prophecy -- inspired utterance. By tongues and interpretations; shall bring forth marvelous statements and bring to pass and bring into being in this sense realm where men can see and know the operation of the Spirit of God and the manifestation of the Spirit of God and the demonstration of the Spirit of God. So rejoice ye and be ye glad. (Ha, Ha, laughter) Hallelujah.”

    - Prophecy delivered by Kenneth E. Hagin at the Winter Bible Seminar on February 20, 1997:
    Good stuff.

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