Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 87

Thread: Pre-Trib Rapture....Yes/No

  1. #1
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,640
    Thanked: 5995
    Blog Entries
    2

    Pre-Trib Rapture....Yes/No

    How do you personally feel about the Pre-trib Rapture. Do you still believe it or changed your mind?
    What about other believers and churches - has there been a shift away from it?

    I 100% don't believe in Pre-Trib Rapture. I believe the rapture will take place but it will be after the anti-christ is revealed and he has done some damage.

    I believe we will see the mark of the beast and will have to choose - Jesus or the anti-christ

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Cardinal TT For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (04-25-2016)

  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    How do you personally feel about the Pre-trib Rapture.
    Bollocks. Well you asked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Do you still believe it or changed your mind?
    Not sure I ever did but as I've been Post-Mil for decades ...


    P.S. <cheeky>See TT one can simply answer the question without coming up with scanarios.</cheeky>

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to FunFromOz For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (04-25-2016)

  5. #3
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,640
    Thanked: 5995
    Blog Entries
    2
    Scenarios are cool


    Is this what you believe?


    http://www.gotquestions.org/postmillennialism.html

    Question: "What is postmillennialism?"

    Answer: Postmillennialism is an interpretation of Revelation chapter 20 which sees Christ's second coming as occurring after the "millennium," a golden age or era of Christian prosperity and dominance. The term includes several similar views of the end times, and it stands in contrast to premillennialism (the view that Christ's second coming will occur prior to His millennial kingdom and that the millennial kingdom is a literal 1000-year reign) and, to a lesser extent, amillennialism (no literal millennium).

    Postmillennialism is the belief that Christ returns after a period of time, but not necessarily a literal 1000 years. Those who hold this view do not interpret unfulfilled prophecy using a normal, literal method. They believe that Revelation 20:4-6 should not be taken literally. They believe that "1000 years" simply means "a long period of time." Furthermore, the prefix "post-" in "postmillennialism" denotes the view that Christ will return after Christians (not Christ Himself) have established the kingdom on this earth.

    Those who hold to postmillennialism believe that this world will become better and better—all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding—with the entire world eventually becoming "Christianized." After this happens, Christ will return. However, this is not the view of the world in the end times that Scripture presents. From the book of Revelation, it is easy to see that the world will be a terrible place during that future time. Also, in 2 Timothy 3:1-7, Paul describes the last days as "terrible times."

    Those who hold to postmillennialism use a non-literal method of interpreting unfulfilled prophecy, assigning their own meanings to words. The problem with this is that when someone starts assigning meanings to words other than their normal meaning, a person can decide that a word, phrase, or sentence means anything he wants it to mean. All objectivity concerning the meaning of words is lost. When words lose their meaning, communication ceases. However, this is not how God has intended for language and communication to be. God communicates to us through His written word, with objective meanings to words, so that ideas and thoughts can be communicated.

    A normal, literal interpretation of Scripture rejects postmillennialism and holds to a normal interpretation of all Scripture, including unfulfilled prophecy. We have hundreds of examples in Scripture of prophecies being fulfilled. Take, for example, the prophecies concerning Christ in the Old Testament. Those prophecies were fulfilled literally. Consider the virgin birth of Christ (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23). Consider His death for our sins (Isaiah 53:4-9; 1 Peter 2:24). These prophecies were fulfilled literally, and that is reason enough to assume that God will continue in the future to literally fulfill His Word. Postmillennialism fails in that it interprets Bible prophecy subjectively and holds that the millennial kingdom will be established by the church, not by Christ Himself.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Cardinal TT For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (04-25-2016)

  7. #4
    Post a definition of postmillennialism by a supporter not a detractor and then I might be able to answer the question.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to FunFromOz For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (04-25-2016)

  9. #5
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,640
    Thanked: 5995
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Post a definition of postmillennialism by a supporter not a detractor and then I might be able to answer the question.
    I wasn't trying to find a detractor. Are the first 3 paragraphs accurate


    You post from an acceptable forum so we can all read

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Cardinal TT For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (04-25-2016)

  11. #6
    pan-millennial

    We believe God, in His own time and in His own way, will bring all earthly things (the Church, Israel, the Tribulation, and the 1000-year reign of Jesus Christ) to their appropriate completion and establish the new heaven and new earth. Jesus Christ will return to the earth suddenly, personally, and visibly in glory according to His promise. The dead will be raised, and Jesus Christ will judge mankind in righteousness. The unrighteous will be consigned to the everlasting punishment prepared for the devil and his angels. The righteous, in their resurrected and glorified bodies, will receive their reward and dwell forever with the Lord.
    http://sharperiron.org/article/defen...-millennialism

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to FaithfulOne For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (04-25-2016)

  13. #7
    don't know, don't care..

    it's only important to me THAT He's coming.

    We're supposed to be prepared for any eventuality.

  14. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Femme* For This Useful Post:

    Colonel (01-18-2016), curly sue (01-18-2016), Ezekiel 33 (04-28-2016), FaithfulOne (01-18-2016), FresnoJoe (04-25-2016), Quest (04-22-2016)

  15. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Are the first 3 paragraphs accurate
    No, for instance in paragraph two we see the words "Those who hold this view do not interpret unfulfilled prophecy using a normal, literal method" but post-mills don't believe them unfulfilled do they?

    Let me start by saying that post-mill is not as entertaining or excitement generating as the alternatives. It doesn't have a mystical beast about to come on the scene; it doesn't have a mystery number that has been associated with everything from credit cards to the internet; it doesn't have a rapture index that's recalculated daily but has been in the "fasten your seatbelts" range every year since 2013.

    But then (like creation vs evolution) post-mill has been relatively static since forever unlike the alternatives that change with each generation where a verse that once was "obviously" talking about mounted calvary now "obviously" is talking about attack helecopters (and when Jesus doesn't come back before the next generation of military hardware is developed will be "obviously" pointing to that).

    And post-mill is about success not failure.

    The best book I've read on the subject is Days of Vengence which can be downloaded from http://www.preteristarchive.com/Book...vengeance.html and is now a mere 270 pages long. It goes through the whole book of Revelation providing a consistant view from all of it, as opposed to a few verses clumped together from here and there.

    The thrill of the alternatives is that it's all about them; they are in the "last days", they are part of the "last generation" but sorry but that's a bit self centered, particularly as people have been saying "it is the last days" for the last couple of hundred years.

    This is the view post-mill is coming from (and these three quotes are from the linked page):

    (On Matt 24:13) "We must remember that "the end" in this passage is not the end of the world, but rather the end of the age, the end of the Temple, the sacrificial system, the covenant nation of Israel, and the last remnants of the pre-Christian era." (Days of Vengeance, p. 89)

    "(The Book of Revelation) is about the destruction of Israel and Christ's victory over His enemies in the establishment of the New Covenant Temple. In fact, as we shall see, the word coming as used in the Book of Revelation never refers to the Second Coming. Revelation prophesies the judgment of God on apostate Israel; and while it does briefly point to events beyond its immediate concerns, that is done merely as a "wrap-up," to show that the ungodly will never prevail against Christ's Kingdom. But the main focus of Revelation is upon events which were soon to take place." (Days of Vengeance, p. 43)

    (On Rev 6:15-17) "This passage is not speaking of the End of the World, but the End of Israel in A.D.70." (p. 148).

    If you read Revelation you see that the very first verse says "The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place", soon TT not in 2000+ years.

    Above I said "post-mill is about success not failure". See the other mills are waiting for things to get so bad that the only hope for the church is for Jesus to come back and rescue them. I'm not sure if these people read their Bibles or newspapers but western Christians have mainly got it pretty easy, no where near how things were in the first century, and Jesus didn't come back then.

    Just my thoughts, but God gave a commission to Adam to take dominion over the earth and unfortunately he sinned and failed. When Jesus left He gave the church the commission to disciple the nations, this time with the power of the Holy Spirit in them. Will they fail again? It would seem most Christians think so, but post-mills believe we won't, that we will slowly but surely take dominion and some time after we do we have the last couple of chapters of Rev then eternity.

    Remember Jesus is coming back for a spotless bride. Is it yet?

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to FunFromOz For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (04-25-2016)

  17. #9
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    In bible school they taught pretrib. I dont feel sure enough to think about my future in terms of a particular scenario other than the fact that Jesus will return and we cant predict the date. The Bible also says that we can speed up the process by fulfilling the great commission. I dont care for being afraid of the antichrist showing up.

  18. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Colonel For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (04-28-2016), FaithfulOne (01-18-2016), FresnoJoe (04-25-2016)

  19. #10
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,640
    Thanked: 5995
    Blog Entries
    2
    So Post millenialism is similar to Preterism

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Cardinal TT For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (04-25-2016)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
You can avoid major, expensive repair costs with an extended service plan for your Toyota. Service plans are available for all Toyota models including the Toyota Prius.