Thread: Pre-Trib Rapture....Yes/No

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

The same is true re evolution, Darwin published his evolutionary theory around the same time in 1858 yet I bet there are Christians who think Jesus believed it. NO HE DIDN'T.

Both occupy a lot of Christian time due to continuing "discussions", takes us away from the task of spreading the Gospel and makes us look stupid in the eyes of the world (well to some extent).

The same could be said about everything the church does apart from spreading the gospel

IMO the rapture/end times discussion has nose dived alot in churches.........the internet keeps it going for the die hard end times believers

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

Now if the following is true .....

There are quotes along the lines of "Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it" but I'd like to start a new one. "Christians who don't know Church history are willing to believe anything".

Apparently the rapture doctrine did not exist before John Darby invented it in 1830 AD yet Christians accept the idea today as if Paul preached multiple sermons on it.

The 'following is not true' tho, seems they are the ones who don't know church history. There are numerous sources available that clearly show teachings on the rapture dating way back to the early centuries....here are just a couple of the articles available citing specific names, dates and excerpts from their writings:


What Did Ancient Church Fathers Believe About The Rapture?

-This article will present the writings of the early church fathers – from those who learned under the disciples of Jesus Christ, to the church leaders of the second and third centuries, on the Rapture – the supernatural removal of all Bible-believing Christians from Earth to enter Heaven. While the writings of the first, second and third century Christian church fathers are not Scripture and not on par with the Bible in any way, it is informative to see how the early church leaders interpreted Scripture in addition to what the learned directly from those closest to The Lord Jesus Christ. And definitively, the few writings still in existence on the end times, put the timing of the Rapture before the Great Tribulation. This article will also serve to dispel some of the common misconceptions about Rapture theology as being something invented in the 19th century by a man named John Darby....

http://beginningandend.com/what-did-...t-the-rapture/


A History of Pre-Darby Rapture Advocates

http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/vie...ture-advocates

Originally Posted by krystian

The 'following is not true' tho, seems they are the ones who don't know church history.

Still the post-mil interpretation is the most sensible.

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

Still the post-mil interpretation is the most sensible.

But you said the rapture was only recent so why should we accept your word about post-mil

Post mil has some major holes.....one hole is so big you can fit the rapture inside it

Originally Posted by Cardinal TT

But you said the rapture was only recent so why should we accept your word about post-mil

Post mil has some major holes.....one hole is so big you can fit the rapture inside it

Actually TT I started with "Now if the following is true .....", and anyway why should krystian's cut and paste be considered more correct than mine? (except perhaps that it supposts what you currently believe? )


Anyway not sure what you consider post-mil's holes but here are two of pre-mils.

1) The very first verse of Revelations is "The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place." Post-mil goes with that, pre-mil somehow have to convert "soon" to (currently - and I say currently because it changes with each generation who are sure they're in the "last days") 2000 years into the future. Consider this, Exodus was about 1446BC and they wandered in the desert for 40 years so the physical nation of Israel had only existed for 1400 years yet when John wrote "soon" under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit it somehow meant the length of time Israel had existed + nearly 50% into the future. That sure is stretching the meaning of "soon", well at least in my books. Verse 3 goes on to say "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near." "Near" TT!

2) I previously mentioned Creation/Evolution because imo we have a similar thing here. Creation and Post-mil are based on what the Bible says happened and are realtively stable. Evolution is based on "science" where the current (ever changing view) is based on what we currently think we know; pre-mil is based on supposition, interpreting scripture based on the current circumstances (remember I mentioned a verse that was referring to mounted calvary then later helecopters?) and what people think will happen in the future. So while Creation/Post-mil are stable Evolution/Pre-Mil are changing and if something is changing then obviously the previous itterations were wrong (but of course we've currently got it right [which the previous folk also said])

"When we start with the assumption that the scientific theories of the day about origins have to influence our reading of Scripture, then 'science', not the Bible (God's Words), becomes our authority"¹ Similarly when we use current events to influence our reading of Scripture then what's our authority? Not God's Word that's for sure.


1. Prayer News. The newsletter for Creation Ministries International (Australia) Jan - Mar // 2016

I am soft pre trib with a slight leaning toward mid trib...

Originally Posted by Cardinal TT

But you said the rapture was only recent so why should we accept your word about post-mil

Post mil has some major holes.....one hole is so big you can fit the rapture inside it

My turn..... It looks like what TT said was accurate.

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

... and anyway why should krystian's cut and paste be considered more correct than mine?

Cause krystian's cut and paste totally blew your erroneous statements out of the water.

Originally Posted by Quest

I am soft pre trib with a slight leaning toward mid trib...

Is that a new category ? We don't need any more categories !!

Originally Posted by Colonel

Is that a new category ? We don't need any more categories !!

At least two of the three being discussed are 'wrong' so seems to me I can another one!

I believe in a mid-rapture millennium with an early and a latter tribulation. I will fiercely debate anyone who decides to take my view seriously. You will have to come across as sincere though.