Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 34

Thread: God's not behind the Trump loss

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Are you a Calvinist ?
    I'm not sure if I'm full-blown Calvinist - I do believe God intervenes and makes things happen, but don't know if He really micro-predestines everything down to the tying of shoelaces, as John Piper claims.

    What I do want, though, is consistency from fellow believers. If God caused Trump to win in 2016, then He also caused Obama to win in 2008. I don't want have-cake-and-eat-it-too logic.

    In Isaiah, God states, "I am the LORD, and there is no other. I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."

  2. #22
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    16,274
    Thanked: 14131
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by MercyandFaith View Post
    What I do want, though, is consistency from fellow believers. If God caused Trump to win in 2016, then He also caused Obama to win in 2008. I don't want have-cake-and-eat-it-too logic.
    That doesn't stand to reason. It makes no sense. So if God cause one person to get elected, then it follows logically that then every elected person is caused to be elected by God? That makes no sense whatsoever.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    That doesn't stand to reason. It makes no sense. So if God cause one person to get elected, then it follows logically that then every elected person is caused to be elected by God? That makes no sense whatsoever.
    It makes perfect sense. God is in control of good and bad things.

  4. #24
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    16,274
    Thanked: 14131
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by MercyandFaith View Post
    It makes perfect sense. God is in control of good and bad things.
    But just because He is 'in control' of one thing doesn't mean He's in control of another thing. That's saying He's in control of ALL things Unless you are a calvinist.

    I'll let Victoryword talk to you about the verse from the OT you quoted about God 'creating disaster'.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,640
    Thanked: 5995
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by MercyandFaith View Post
    It makes perfect sense. God is in control of good and bad things.
    It depends what you mean by control. Calvinists believe that God's control also means he ordains everything including evil to happen.

    I believe God is in control but he doesn't ordain everything and many things happen outside his will.

    Example being pastors who commit suicide - They leave behind devastated wives, children and many believers in shock. Does God want his pastors to commit suicide???
    God knows all the evil things that will happen but he is not ordaining pastors to commit suicide

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Cardinal TT For This Useful Post:

    LionHeart (11-17-2020)

  7. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by MercyandFaith View Post
    The logic of some:

    Obama winning in 2008 = "This was NOT God's will"
    Trump winning in 2016 = "This IS God's will"
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Are you a Calvinist ?
    Calvinists are a bit strange MercyandFaith, when they read:

    All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness (2Tim 3:16) they actually believe it, so when they read:

    (What Paul wrote to the Romans) "What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? Far from it! . . . So then, it does not depend on the person who wants it nor the one who runs, but on God who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very reason I raised you up, in order to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the earth." (Rom 9:14, 16-17) or

    (When David is punished for his adultery and murder) "Now then, the sword shall never leave your house, because you have despised Me and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife.' This is what the Lord says: 'Behold, I am going to raise up evil against you from your own household; I will even take your wives before your eyes and give them to your companion, and he will sleep with your wives in broad daylight" (2Sam 12:10-11) or

    (When God punished Solomon for disobeying Him) Then the Lord raised up an adversary against Solomon, Hadad the Edomite; he was of the royal line in Edom (1Ki 11:14) or

    (and also) "God also raised up another adversary against him, Rezon the son of Eliada, who had fled from his master Hadadezer, king of Zobah" (1Ki 11:23) or

    (the punishment of Jeroboam) "therefore behold, I am bringing disaster on the house of Jeroboam, and I will eliminate from Jeroboam every male person, both bond and free in Israel, and I will make a clean sweep of the house of Jeroboam, just as one sweeps away dung until it is all gone. Anyone belonging to Jeroboam who dies in the city, the dogs will eat. And anyone who dies in the field, the birds of the sky will eat; for the Lord has spoken it." (1Ki 14:10-11) or

    (and later to Israel) ""For behold, I am going to raise up a nation against you, house of Israel," declares the Lord God of armies, "And they will torment you from the entrance of Hamath to the brook of the Arabah.""

    Would you believe it GraceandMercy, Calvinists actually believe that too!!! Yep, they believe things as they are written in the inerrant, Holy Spirit breathed, Word of God. They don't try to sugar coat them; they don't try to make them more palatable; they don't try to pretend that "God's not like that".

    God punished evil. If we look at our Bibles we find that "the wrath of God is spoken of something like 600 times directly or indirectly in the Old Testament alone, quite apart from New Testament usages. And that is in addition to passages where the expression — "the wrath of God" — or anything analogous is not actually found, but the narrative carries the same theme" (ref) yet "In the King James Version, love is mentioned (only ...FFO) 310 times" (ref). Yep we read of God's wrath twice as often as we read of His love. You wouldn't think so would you?

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to FunFromOz For This Useful Post:

    MercyandFaith (11-17-2020)

  9. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by MercyandFaith View Post
    It makes perfect sense. God is in control of good and bad things.
    If we do not exercise our God given authority in prayer satan is off the chain doing whatever he wants to and some say God ordained it,

    God's not behind the Trump loss-26349-jpg

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to LionHeart For This Useful Post:

    FireBrand (11-17-2020), fuego (11-17-2020)

  11. #28
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    Quote Originally Posted by MercyandFaith View Post
    What I do want, though, is consistency from fellow believers. If God caused Trump to win in 2016, then He also caused Obama to win in 2008. I don't want have-cake-and-eat-it-too logic.
    That's Calvinism.

    God could have tipped the scales by influencing people according to the prayers of believers in one case and decided to do nothing in the other case.

    What is certain is that the world is full of sinners who won't let themselves be lead to do according to God's will without being born again first. God isn't going to zap all of them until they all fail to vote for Obama, for instance.

  12. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by LionHeart View Post
    If we do not exercise our God given authority in prayer satan is off the chain doing whatever he wants to and some say God ordained it,
    On the other hand doesn't Mark 3 tell us that attributing the things of God to the devil blasphemes the Holy Spirit and is unforgiveable?

  13. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    God could have tipped the scales by influencing people according to the prayers of believers in one case and decided to do nothing in the other case.
    Would that not violate their free will?

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
You can avoid unexpected and expensive repair costs with an extended service plan for your Lexus. Many vehicle repairs can cost thousands of dollars in unexpected expense, now may be the time to consider an extended service plan for your vehicle.