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Senior Member
Free Will and the Election
Okay, for those of you who think that the future is determined by man's free will choices, let me ask you a couple of questions:
1. Does God only foreknow the next president or has God determined who that will be (i.e. His choice)?
Worded another way, do you believe the results of the election are solely determined by the collective free will choices of the voters and God is simply waiting and watching? Or will God put in office the man or woman He chooses, only using the pretense of the election to accomplish His will?
2. If our free will choices determine who is the next president, how do you pray concerning the election? Are you praying for God to change the minds of enough voters so your candidate wins? And if you are, how is that a demonstration of man's free will?
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Bookman
Okay, for those of you who think that the future is determined by man's free will choices
Noone here believes that.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Colonel
Noone here believes that.
Oh? Then how is the future determined? Has God got a plan than man's free will choices can't trump? If so, that sounds a lot like the sovereignty of God to me.
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* Toxic Troll - Negative Nancy
The vast majority of people on planet earth have rejected God and refuse to follow Him... so, destruction is on the way and God is going to stand back and allow destruction to come because He is not mocked... whatsoever we reap IS what we sow (Gal 6:7,8)
God is not the One sowing the seeds of man's destruction... man is.
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Senior Member
Who was the king in the OT who was pronounced as dying and then cried out to God, who had mercy on him and granted him more years of life?
Our nation is like that. Judgment is coming. If we listen to the Father, we know His will and have the chance to obey it and prosper. If we continue down the path we are traveling, we are bringing judgment upon ourselves as a nation.
God has clearly revealed in His word that He absolutely hates the shedding of innocent blood.
So now, the church has a choice. We can pray that every true follower of Jesus will vote in accordance with that revealed will of God in order that He might show us a few more years of mercy. Or, we can just keep quiet and watch the continuing downward spiral of America happen much quicker.
God will not force anyone to vote His will, but He can indeed (through the Holy Spirit) prick the hearts of believers and compel them to do the right thing.
Because of our free will we bring judgment or mercy upon ourselves and our nation.
In your version of "sovereignty" God is responsible for evil. It is His fault that our nation is where it is at today. But we know that the bible teaches otherwise.
We get to choose, life or death, blessing or curse.
With that said, I am praying that the Father touches the heart of His people and compels them to do what is in line with His will/word.
Trump has declared that he will de-fund Planned Parenthood. Pence has already tried on several occasions. God hates the shedding of innocent blood.
What are we to do? Seems pretty easy to me bro. Pray that the real church will rise up and seek the heart of the Father for this election. We have the power to bring mercy or judgment to our nation.
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Senior Member
In your version of "sovereignty" God is responsible for evil.
Without going into a whole Job argument again, I would ask if God was responsible for Job's trouble, given that we know He could have refused Satan's request. And, of course, good old Joseph. What his brothers meant for evil, God meant for good. To me, that means God took evil intentions and worked them "after the counsel of His will." He was not responsible for their evil acts, but His sovereignty dictated that their intended evil would end up working out God's will.
With that said, I am praying that the Father touches the heart of His people and compels them to do what is in line with His will/word.
That makes my point, Zeke. The minute God "compels" people to do something, how is that free will?
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* Toxic Troll - Negative Nancy
When you go to the Randy White meetings... they won't be teaching that.
That makes my point, Zeke. The minute God "compels" people to do something, how is that free will?
They have the right to disobey, and God will not force them to do anything.
He'll just find someone else.
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Senior Member
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God (Romans 13:1).
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Bookman
Without going into a whole Job argument again, I would ask if God was responsible for Job's trouble, given that we know He could have refused Satan's request. And, of course, good old Joseph. What his brothers meant for evil, God meant for good. To me, that means God took evil intentions and worked them "after the counsel of His will." He was not responsible for their evil acts, but His sovereignty dictated that their intended evil would end up working out God's will.
That makes my point, Zeke. The minute God "compels" people to do something, how is that free will?
I compelled anyone who isn't born again to come to the altar Sunday. There was at least one person in attendance that I am pretty sure hasn't been saved yet. They didn't come, but I still compelled them to.
Why? Because when God called me He brought me to Ezekiel 33 and I want no one's blood on my hands. God desires that ALL would repent and come to the saving knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. I desire to please my heavenly Father by helping folks come to repentance and a saving knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. Go into all the highways and bi-ways and compel them to come. But they all don't.
Some folks have to hear the message several times before they surrender. Some never do. Why? Because they have a free will.
The anointing of the Holy Spirit is there. Jesus is lifted up, therefore drawing them. And yet they choose not to come.
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* Toxic Troll - Negative Nancy
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God (Romans 13:1).
Yes, God establishes the office of authority... but that does not mean He is the One Who puts certain people into office.
Unless you think it was God's will for hitler to lead Germany and murder millions of people.
And, what about abortion? Surely you don't think it's God's will to put people in office that advocate baby killin do you?
What about the Apostles rebeling against the Roman government (at the behest of the Sanhedrin) who ordered them not to preach in the Name of Jesus... and they did anyway??? Did they sin against God?
No, they did not because... when man's laws opposes God's will, we are called to follow God's will before the laws of evil men who reject the Lord.
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