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Thread: Black Pentecostals and voting against Hillary because she is female

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Woman View Post
    "Now Deborah, a PROPHETESS, the wife of Lapidoth, was JUDGING Israel at that time. And she would sit under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the mountains of Ephraim.

    And the children of Israel came up to her for JUDGMENT."
    Judges 4-5‬ (NKJV‬‬)

    She was a JUDGE...Which gave her AUTHORITY over men (weak and strong), women and children. Deal with it.

    Toss your Bible and get a new one...
    Nothing to deal with VW2, I agree with you as far as that goes.

    In Judges 2 we read "The people served the Lord all the days of Joshua ... Then the sons of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord and served the Baals, and they forsook the Lord, the God of their fathers. ... Then the Lord raised up judges who delivered them from the hands of those who plundered them. Yet they did not listen to their judges, for they played the harlot after other gods and bowed themselves down to them."

    There are 15 judges named in the Bible and we can find the names here. Deborah is the only female listed and it was at a time that the warrior, Barak was given a message God by Deborah to fight the army of king Jabin of Hazor in Canaan but would only go if Deborah went with him. Or as I said before he was a wimp.

    As Quest says:
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Deborah seems to be the only female in a position of authority. (in the Bible FFO) ...the others were prominent and significant but not in a position of authority (hilighted by FFO)
    This is not "Ignorance gone to seed. " as you are fond of saying, but simply what we find in the Bible. It upsets feminists (and those they've influenced) of course, but the Bible's God's standard to live by, not what feminist say.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Judges 4:4 Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, was judging Israel at that time. 5 And she would sit under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the mountains of Ephraim. And the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.

    If Barak was a wimp then so were the other children of Israel. Deborah sat there, the others came to her. But then, as the verses you yourself quoted determine, it was God who raised up the various judges, including Deborah. He could have picked some man instead of Deborah and it would have been easier on the Israelites. Women had a much harder job in being taken seriously except as helpers for their husbands but it was possible to rise, even to the top. Just like it is in many places in the world today (forget about North America and Europe, they are exceptions where things work differently), women can become independent and queen-like in the eyes of the people but it is very difficult.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    If Barak was a wimp then so were the other children of Israel.
    Correct. God couldn't find a man to do the job so He humbled them more by putting a woman as judge over them.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Correct. God couldn't find a man to do the job so He humbled them more by putting a woman as judge over them.
    Where does it say that ?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Where does it say that ?
    See what God says in Isa 3

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    See what God says in Isa 3
    I know which passage you are referring to, how does that relate to the discussion ?

  7. #27
    Senior Member Valiant Woman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Nor does yours make mine false...Both Genesis and Timothy address this and they are parallel and specific to women.
    No, it's specific to married women.

    I agree God is no respecter of persons..... ...but your saying that includes leadership positions in church is your own conclusion. One passage of scripture does not negate the others...they are ALL true.
    Twisting the scriptures to say God only chooses men to lead because there's some kind of weakness or inferiority in women is saying that God created woman with less intelligence, and capabilities than man, which therefore suggests that God is a respecter of persons. I believe God created us equal in intelligence and capabilities, the only difference being that most men are physically stronger than women, and in the area of emotions, though the differences in that area are suppose to balance the relationship between the sexes. Other than that, there is no difference in their ability to lead men or women.


    He does not regard one person superior in value to another...that has nothing to do with His designated plan for men and women.
    Your position suggest otherwise. There have been women leaders through the Bible, you and those that support your erroneous position just refuse to acknowledge them as such. Queen Esther was a leader who had authority. She was able to have her husband the king, execute judgment over the Jews enemies. Could any man besides the king approach her without her consent? No, they could not.

    Your view seems contaminated with the feminist claims than scripture. When men and women find their call and the leading of their Father they don't envy the difference in male and female. So I don't view my believe as God showing favoritism...I see it as God demonstrating His wisdom in dealing with His children.
    And yours is contaminated with the doctrine of DEMONS & men. It is man that has promoted this satanic doctrine of men being more capable of leading men than women. God allowed it in most cases only to have His will done because He knew the bullheadedness and pride of men who wouldn't submit to the authority of a woman. Has nothing to do with the Feminist movement or claims.

    The main reason the feminist movement was birthed is because of the oppression and discrimination against women for centuries. If men had done right by women, God would have squashed the movement decades ago. He allowed it because women weren't getting any help from the Church who in many cases were the worst offenders.

    God who is no respecter of persons calls one to be a teacher, another to be a pastor, and another to be prophet, and another to be...whatever. The church at Corinth had issues with that...when it comes to Lordship Jesus, through the holy Spirit designates who is called to do what...that right God has retained for Himself...and has nothing to do with valuing one above another..or as Peter was noting, excluding Gentiles from salvation...
    Yes, and when He desires, He calls some women to lead whether it be in the Church, nations, or the courtrooms, He calls whom He wills. There is not one scripture in the NT that forbids WOMEN from teaching or leading men with the exception of the home, where God ordained the husband to be the head.



    Genesis 3:16To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."
    Yes, Like I said, God appointed the husband is the head of the household. Has nothing to do with women in the Church, business, or other areas of leadership or authority.

    Parallel

    1 Timothy 2:11-15
    11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.
    Again, this scripture is speaking of husbands and wives. Verses 13 & 14 proves it.

    Respecter of persons passage speaks not at all to gender but nationality/race. I have parallel passages from the OT and NT saying that women are to be submissive and WHY...
    Wrong again. That suggest God as a respected of persons by saying ok, in one area Im not prejudiced, but when it comes to men and women, I'm going to make a difference because women are too feeble to lead, so she must be subject to men in the areas of leadership and authority. That's absurd. Again, the doctrine of demons.



    Women have been led to believe that to have a differing role from men implies inferiority or devalues them. I believe That is a seed of the feminist movement and EVE bought it in the garden...submitting to God's intended plan as our gender dictates frees us to be all that He desire each of us to be.
    Yes, because the enemy needed to have a foothold, and what better strategy than to instigate the battle between the sexes and some ignorant, gullible females to support his evil agenda. It's worked well to his advantage because here it is the 21st century and folk still believe his LIES.
    When your praise match your prayers, the answer will come.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Valiant Woman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romans828 View Post


    While I agree, there are a number of awesome and anointed women in ministry, I wouldn't feel comfortable sitting under a female Pastor either - Sorry, but something about it just vexes my spirit.



    I suggest it's not your spirit that's vexed, it's more likely your flesh or your mind, will, and emotions.

    It shouldn't matter if the pastor is male or female. How can your spirit be vexed when the anointed word of God is being ministered?

    God spoke through a donkey, do you honestly believe He wouldn't or couldn't use a female to pastor you? No, it's not your spirit that's vexed, it's prejudice because of the false narrative you believe women pastors.
    When your praise match your prayers, the answer will come.
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  9. #29
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Woman View Post
    No, it's specific to married women.



    Twisting the scriptures to say God only chooses men to lead because there's some kind of weakness or inferiority in women is saying that God created woman with less intelligence, and capabilities than man, which therefore suggests that God is a respecter of persons. I believe God created us equal in intelligence and capabilities, the only difference being that most men are physically stronger than women, and in the area of emotions, though the differences in that area are suppose to balance the relationship between the sexes. Other than that, there is no difference in their ability to lead men or women.




    Your position suggest otherwise. There have been women leaders through the Bible, you and those that support your erroneous position just refuse to acknowledge them as such. Queen Esther was a leader who had authority. She was able to have her husband the king, execute judgment over the Jews enemies. Could any man besides the king approach her without her consent? No, they could not.



    And yours is contaminated with the doctrine of DEMONS & men. It is man that has promoted this satanic doctrine of men being more capable of leading men than women. God allowed it in most cases only to have His will done because He knew the bullheadedness and pride of men who wouldn't submit to the authority of a woman. Has nothing to do with the Feminist movement or claims.

    The main reason the feminist movement was birthed is because of the oppression and discrimination against women for centuries. If men had done right by women, God would have squashed the movement decades ago. He allowed it because women weren't getting any help from the Church who in many cases were the worst offenders.



    Yes, and when He desires, He calls some women to lead whether it be in the Church, nations, or the courtrooms, He calls whom He wills. There is not one scripture in the NT that forbids WOMEN from teaching or leading men with the exception of the home, where God ordained the husband to be the head.





    Yes, Like I said, God appointed the husband is the head of the household. Has nothing to do with women in the Church, business, or other areas of leadership or authority.

    Parallel



    Again, this scripture is speaking of husbands and wives. Verses 13 & 14 proves it.



    Wrong again. That suggest God as a respected of persons by saying ok, in one area Im not prejudiced, but when it comes to men and women, I'm going to make a difference because women are too feeble to lead, so she must be subject to men in the areas of leadership and authority. That's absurd. Again, the doctrine of demons.





    Yes, because the enemy needed to have a foothold, and what better strategy than to instigate the battle between the sexes and some ignorant, gullible females to support his evil agenda. It's worked well to his advantage because here it is the 21st century and folk still believe his LIES.
    I know the debate points....but the clear reading of scripture in context finally convinced me to surrender the rhetoric...no need to rehash it...at least not right now...maybe later...

  10. #30
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Woman View Post
    [/U][/B]

    I suggest it's not your spirit that's vexed, it's more likely your flesh or your mind, will, and emotions.

    It shouldn't matter if the pastor is male or female. How can your spirit be vexed when the anointed word of God is being ministered?

    God spoke through a donkey, do you honestly believe He wouldn't or couldn't use a female to pastor you? No, it's not your spirit that's vexed, it's prejudice because of the false narrative you believe women pastors.
    I suggest it is the Spirit telling her what the culture clearly opposes...and the challenge that it's just old school ideas that are causing the vexation.

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