Thread: Our Government must be in bed with Denmark and afraid to upset them?

This whole deal is beyond ridiculous.

I think the problem is, that Torben has no reason to receive asylum.
I am sorry for him.

I've followed him to some degree since 2016. There have been issues along the way that unfortunately have made him the focus of a lot of hatred.

To begin with, the movement wasn't based on any form of church. Not even in Copenhagen and North-Western Denmark where they were permanently based. They had some sort of Bible school and of course outreaches, but no church. Only many years later did they start up something called "TLR communities". Things seemed very trust based, but that didn't work very well. At one point they had to completely revise their worldwide "TLR contact" system because the phone numbers that anyone could access, lead to all sorts of strange people, including who didn't live a Christian lifestyle at all. New converts were often declared "set free" after having been baptized in water and prayed over, then sent out onto the street for outreach, with little discipling, at least in terms of fundamental teachings. Some of them went from ordinary lifestyles to practically living on the street doing nothing but outreach, in a very short amount of time. One can imagine what a lot of people around them thought of that.

The "no church, just outreach" approach meant that they had very little community presence and backing, and I could tell that the hatred against this somewhat alienated yet radical movement was growing in Denmark during the year leading up to the unfortunate events.

They had a youtube presence where they often focused on the most impressive deliverance sessions, as if they were bragging about casting out more and worse demons than anyone else. Often in conjunction with mass baptisms, with one person in each their own bathtub (that resembled cookpots somewhat?) with too many people around them, often yelling along with the person being baptized+delivered at the same time. That attracts a lot of attention, and a small percentage of it will be from Christians that are genuinely impressed.

After a while, they had a tendency to criticize other Charismatic churches or movements heavy handedly, often based on emotion based claims made by people loosely affiliated with their own movement. More alienation followed.

Then they let a team from a large Danish secular tv channel follow them around, to make a documentary. Søndergaard reasoned that they would see the positivity in the message, the healings, the changed lives. But these were very secular people, representing an organization run by people who were never present to see things for themselves, and who had a hidden agenda. They viewed everything through their lens of unbelief, of looking for faults, and according to their bosses' agenda. Never trust people like that to simply follow you around.

Very radical, lots of immediate results, but very questionable in terms of wisdom and long term effects. Søndergaard always came across as hard headed, the Bible instructs us to defend the gospel with humility. Maybe the "just outreach" approach works better in other countries or areas with a different culture, not so in Scandinavia.

Originally Posted by tschau

I think the problem is, that Torben has no reason to receive asylum.
I am sorry for him.

We wouldn't know that without a hearing. We currently have untold numbers of asylum seekers in the United States, when caught or if they self report they are simply given a court date far into the future and released. Torben is not receiving the treatment or due process afforded to the vast majority of others, this is a classic case of selective prosecution, he was targeted, probably by his home country in cahoots with corrupt officials here in the US.

Originally Posted by John

We wouldn't know that without a hearing. We currently have untold numbers of asylum seekers in the United States, when caught or if they self report they are simply given a court date far into the future and released. Torben is not receiving the treatment or due process afforded to the vast majority of others, this is a classic case of selective prosecution, he was targeted, probably by his home country in cahoots with corrupt officials here in the US.

It doesn't have to be the Danish government, it could be Danish individuals with connections in the US. He mentioned someone who was invited by the judge to a court hearing and then the person taped the meeting illegally and put it on the internet.

Originally Posted by Colonel

I've followed him to some degree since 2016. There have been issues along the way that unfortunately have made him the focus of a lot of hatred.

To begin with, the movement wasn't based on any form of church. Not even in Copenhagen and North-Western Denmark where they were permanently based. They had some sort of Bible school and of course outreaches, but no church. Only many years later did they start up something called "TLR communities". Things seemed very trust based, but that didn't work very well. At one point they had to completely revise their worldwide "TLR contact" system because the phone numbers that anyone could access, lead to all sorts of strange people, including who didn't live a Christian lifestyle at all. New converts were often declared "set free" after having been baptized in water and prayed over, then sent out onto the street for outreach, with little discipling, at least in terms of fundamental teachings. Some of them went from ordinary lifestyles to practically living on the street doing nothing but outreach, in a very short amount of time. One can imagine what a lot of people around them thought of that.

The "no church, just outreach" approach meant that they had very little community presence and backing, and I could tell that the hatred against this somewhat alienated yet radical movement was growing in Denmark during the year leading up to the unfortunate events.

They had a youtube presence where they often focused on the most impressive deliverance sessions, as if they were bragging about casting out more and worse demons than anyone else. Often in conjunction with mass baptisms, with one person in each their own bathtub (that resembled cookpots somewhat?) with too many people around them, often yelling along with the person being baptized+delivered at the same time. That attracts a lot of attention, and a small percentage of it will be from Christians that are genuinely impressed.

After a while, they had a tendency to criticize other Charismatic churches or movements heavy handedly, often based on emotion based claims made by people loosely affiliated with their own movement. More alienation followed.

Then they let a team from a large Danish secular tv channel follow them around, to make a documentary. Søndergaard reasoned that they would see the positivity in the message, the healings, the changed lives. But these were very secular people, representing an organization run by people who were never present to see things for themselves, and who had a hidden agenda. They viewed everything through their lens of unbelief, of looking for faults, and according to their bosses' agenda. Never trust people like that to simply follow you around.

Very radical, lots of immediate results, but very questionable in terms of wisdom and long term effects. Søndergaard always came across as hard headed, the Bible instructs us to defend the gospel with humility. Maybe the "just outreach" approach works better in other countries or areas with a different culture, not so in Scandinavia.

The basis of asylum is being persecuted for religious beliefs. It doesn't matter what form that takes, it's not based on any particular "norms".

The political reason is that if Torben were to be granted asylum it would mark Denmark as a human rights violator, I'm sure they can't be having any of that so they are seeking to criminalize his ministry. Denmark is behind this.