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Thread: On the Wrath of God- is it an essential or fundamental attribute of God?

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    The above only works if sin isn't God's doing in any way, shape or form. If it is then he has forefeited on his ability to function as a righteous judge. Instead it is all his own doing, both the fact that his creatures sin, the direct consequences of the sin, plus any judgments on it that he would add himself.
    Well sin isn't God's doing in any way, shape or form. I wonder where that idea ever came from?

    Men, including you and I Colonel, sin because we choose to. And we choose to because we want to.

    I think this idea came up somewhere in the 2 hour video I posted recently (which, at the end you find was meant to only go for an hour).

  2. #12
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Well sin isn't God's doing in any way, shape or form. I wonder where that idea ever came from?

    Men, including you and I Colonel, sin because we choose to. And we choose to because we want to.

    I think this idea came up somewhere in the 2 hour video I posted recently (which, at the end you find was meant to only go for an hour).
    This is an example of where :

    God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty ... taken away.
    The problem is that the part from "yet" and on contradicts the part before "yet". At best this becomes a matter of God applying massive manipulation which technically saves the highlighted part and that part only :

    yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty ... taken away

  3. #13
    The wrath of God against sin is mandatory for His holiness, but it's also a curative for personal sin. In that sense, the wrath of God is a gift to us to keep us from that which would destroy us. Thank God for His wrath against sin and evil.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    The wrath of God against sin is mandatory for His holiness, but it's also a curative for personal sin. In that sense, the wrath of God is a gift to us to keep us from that which would destroy us. Thank God for His wrath against sin and evil.
    His holiness doesn't mingle with sin and the contrast produces wrath. He would have to cease to exist or become unholy for his wrath over sin to cease. Redeeming sin is possible but then the wrath is poured out on the substitutionary sacrifice instead.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    This is an example of where :



    The problem is that the part from "yet" and on contradicts the part before "yet". At best this becomes a matter of God applying massive manipulation which technically saves the highlighted part and that part only :
    The video I'll repeat a link to below sort of addresses that.

    There's the question of what happens if an irresistible force meets an immovable object, and in reality it's a non-question as you cannot have the two existing at the same time.

    So the idea of having an omniscient God who didn't know what He would create/ didn't know what He was creating/ didn't know what He had created is also a non-question. The two situations can't exist at the same time.



  6. #16
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    So the idea of having an omniscient God who didn't know what He would create/ didn't know what He was creating/ didn't know what He had created is also a non-question. The two situations can't exist at the same time.
    That's a long video, the healing videos that I posted were like 5-10 minutes long.

    The only thing that is interesting about foreknowledge in this context, is causation. Did God cause the person to sin, did he manipulate the person to sin or was the person perfectly capable of doing otherwise ? The non-Calvinist will say the latter. The whole point to free will is that its actions do not follow causatively from how the creature was created or how the world was set up.

  7. #17
    This is only 4 mins:


  8. #18
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    This is only 4 mins:

    That doesn't address foreordination of sin because Adam and Eve are still deemed as having a truly free will from the beginning.

  9. #19
    Not sure if this does either, but it is a very challenging 3min 45secs


  10. #20
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    This is a great video that confirms my previous comments about Calvinism

    The Westminster Confesion is elevated to the same level as inspired scripture to make a definitive authoritative statement regarding God and his character. It is a form of idolatry to idolise this confession.

    The argument that those that don't believe in the above confession are atheists is nonsensical gobbledegook and embarrassing that Christians could be so gullible.

    This video convinces me to reject Reformed teaching and in regard to apologetics of the faith and debating unbelievers is totally useless.
    The belief that God 100% pre-ordains everything that occurs is one of the dumbest teachings to ever come forth from believers

    I feel better getting that off my chest


    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Not sure if this does either, but it is a very challenging 3min 45secs


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