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Thread: Not Afraid of the Anti-Christ-Why we don't believe in a pre-trib rapture--Brown & Keener

  1. #21
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    The Word proves Pre-trib. You love to tweak Scriptures.
    I don't tweak scriptures bro. I read them in context. Please show me which scripture you say I have tweaked and how I have tweaked it.

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    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    Revelation 3:10
    10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

    As I also pointed out when answering that same paper, this was addressed to a specific church (Philadelphia) at a certain time.
    OPINION

  3. #23
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    OPINION
    Let's put that into context Nikos. When you take it out of context in order to support pre-tribulationalism it is you who are "TWEAKING" the scriptures. Let's be honest here bro.

    Revelation 3:7-13 (NKJV)

    7 “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write,

    ‘These things says He who is holy, He who is true, “He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens”: 8 “I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name. 9 Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. 10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

    13 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’

    WHO is Jesus talking to in this passage?


    He was talking to an EXISTING church who was faithful in spite of what was happening around them.

    Here are the clues to help you put it into proper context:

    VERSE 8="HAVE NOT denied My Name" (Past tense)
    VERSE 9="Who say they ARE" (present tense)
    VERSE 10="HAVE KEPT" (past tense)

    If you go look at chapter 1, you will get even more specific context:

    Revelation 1:20 New King James Version (NKJV)

    20 The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.
    Jesus made it perfectly clear in chapter 1 who He was having John write to-The seven churches which existed in Asia Minor.

    Not Afraid of the Anti-Christ-Why we don't believe in a pre-trib rapture--Brown & Keener-seven-churches-revelation-jpg


  4. #24
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    THESE CHURCHES REPRESENT TODAY'S CHURCH.

    I rest my case.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    THESE CHURCHES REPRESENT TODAY'S CHURCH.

    I rest my case.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    THESE CHURCHES REPRESENT TODAY'S CHURCH.

    I rest my case.
    Do you have a scripture that says that these churches represent today's church?

    I can't think of one that does.

    They were actual physical churches that existed, just like on the map I posted for you.

    In order to rest your case, you first must be able to present a case. Without scripture backing you up, you have no case brother Nikos.

    You can have a "Theory" or a "Guess", but without a scripture saying that they represent today's church you have no real "case" to rest.

    You do realize that this whole pre-trib rapture theory didn't hit until around 1830 don't you? Here is one of many videos showing the History behind the pre-trib teaching.




  7. #27
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    Dear Friend, The Bible is our instruction book and you must take all of it and apply it to your/our lives.




    2 Tim.3 Verses 16 to 17

    [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    [17] That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    1830's?

    Pre-Trib was taught back as far as Ephraem of Nisibis (306-373). Ephraem wrote an important sermon "On the Last Times, the Antichrist and the End of the World." He was a prominent theologian of the Eastern Byzantine church and he advocated for a pretribulational rapture position for the church.

    Of course even before Ephraem was the great Apostle Paul.

    Do your home work brother. Lay down that book and forget about Brown. Just follow the Word. It will never lead you astray.

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  10. #30
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    1830's?

    Pre-Trib was taught back as far as Ephraem of Nisibis (306-373). Ephraem wrote an important sermon "On the Last Times, the Antichrist and the End of the World." He was a prominent theologian of the Eastern Byzantine church and he advocated for a pretribulational rapture position for the church.

    Of course even before Ephraem was the great Apostle Paul.

    Do your home work brother. Lay down that book and forget about Brown. Just follow the Word. It will never lead you astray.
    It wasn't taught in America until around 1830. It wasn't taught by the early church at all.

    If you were on an island with a bible and had never been taught this doctrine, you would not have come up with it by simply reading scripture.

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