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Thread: The Effort To Remove God's Holy Justice

  1. #11
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    I don't hate the KJV, to the contrary I think it's amazingly good for its time. Mostly. With some verses it's ridiculously off and in several passages it's much more Calvinism friendly than modern translations are. There's a story of Wigglesworth reading a verse in the NT in his KJV Bible and getting the actual meaning of it even though that meaning is unintelligible. The Holy Spirit simply overrode the faulty translation of the verse and revealed it to him.

    James 4:4 KJV Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
    5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

    Even the NKJV corrects verse 5 :

    5 NKJV Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, "The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously"?

    Which makes the meaning of the verse very different.

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  3. #12
    Frozen Chosen A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WMBillPrice View Post
    I'll get to the last point first. When I say KJVO, I am saying that the KJV is the preserved Word of God in English translation. I am not a judge against other translations, but again, my personal preference and belief.

    Also, let me ask not just you but others this one question. Why is it that when someone claims to be kJVO, all of a sudden, it is everyone's job to show that person how God was NOT able to preserve His Word translated? I mean, people like James White have a hatred for the KJV so badly that he actually has to attack the KJV. I know this is not the case with so many people, but why is it that people automatically have to state that the KJV is actually the worst translation? I'll stand with what I know.

    As for the common KJV is too hard to understand, I am not saying anything but this. I understood the KJV from age 12 originally. So, if that was the case, then to me at least, that argument has no merit.

    As for your first statement. Show me a version of the Bible perfectly preserved, but so hated like the KJV? I am being honest, because I said what I said as part of what God has done for me, and encourage others to go this same path, and all of a sudden the KJV is openly attacked. Why? I am not being hateful, but I stand where I stand.

    Finally, as for the other translations being so rich and deep. I disagree. As I have said on other social media platforms, other translations, even paraphrases are not as rich and deep. Some remove entire verses, cast doubt on both the sovereignty of God and His ability to preserve His Word, and in many cases distort truth all together. This is from my own study. I consider it to be a personal opinion to state the other modern translations as being just as rich and deep. In fact, I find many shallow. And I have read several through in mine own life.

    Now, let me stop and state this for the record. I said what i said as a testimony of how God used the KJV with me. We overcome by the Blood of the Lamb, and the Word of our testimony (Rev. 12:11). I disagree with other translations but I am not coming on here to share but for this one reason, to help people receive as I have. And, I pray and hope that what I am saying is reflective of the humility and love I feel right now even as I type these words. I believe the KJV to be God preserved Word translated rightly, and has endured as such despite the attempts of men to do so different by doing violence to such. I pray that I have spoken such in grace.

    I think you read my reply through a lens of defensiveness because first of all, I don't hate any true Christian translation or paraphrase and I certainly didn't say it's the worst. I simply stated that KJV is not 100% correctly translated. How does that reflect hatred of it? In the same breath, I said paraphrases take liberty. I don't know how you heard a "hatred" of KJV in those statements.

    KJV is a translation. Subject to interpretations of its time. I'm sure they did the best they could with what they had, but it's still a translation to Old English from original Hebrew and Greek. I didn't attack it, or you in any way.

    It's great you understood KJV as a 12YO. But in this day, with so many other options, why does anyone need to start there? Are the other translations and paraphrases so bad, people honestly shouldn't read them???

    I didn't say that each translation is rich and deep, I said that studying from many of them together can be rich and deep. At a Bible study, it's amazing how having people read from their various translations bring a deeper understanding of the Word.


    I believe the KJV to be God preserved Word translated rightly, and has endured as such despite the attempts of men to do so different by doing violence to such.
    I don't think anyone can say anything to make me believe that KJV is the only translation worth reading and studying out of and I'm just not sure where KJVO only people are coming from to say so. I'm not an argumentative person by nature but sometimes when things like this come up, I have to say my piece.

    I'm glad you love the KJV and that it has always been your go-to. But to try to convince other people it's the only version to use when there are so many other options in Modern English just doesn't make sense to me. God is in all of them. Thus the richness of the English language.
    Last edited by A.J.; 05-09-2020 at 10:05 PM.

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  5. #13
    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    It is not my intention to attack the new brother Bill Price for his preference to using the KJV only in his bible reading. That certainly is his right, and I am glad he is blessed in his studies using the KJV.

    But I will bring to light that there were godly accomplishments achieved by those in the early church without the use of the KJV.

    Apollos was a champion defender of the faith (as Paul was), yet neither cited the KJV even once. Both had a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures and was a "great help" to the saints.

    The word of God that was spread was not from the KJV of the bible, yet a large number of priests became obedient to the faith (Acts 6:7), as well as Stephens message before the Sanhedrin as noted in Acts 7 without using the KJV.

    After Stephen was martyred, all the other Christians except the apostles were scattered and preached God's word (Acts 8:4), and none ever cited the KJV.

    The apostles accomplished that too without a KJV. So, those who teach the KJV is the only word of God (not implying Bill says this), is completely irrational and impossible.

    Churches were started and many wonderful things were done by the Christians and apostles, even as Paul's custom was, he went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures (Acts 17:2), all being done without the usage of the KJV. To those who who would say that the KJV is the only word of God is to say there was no word of God until 1611.

    The truth is: the real word of God is the actual writings first recorded in Hebrew and Greek from Genesis to Revelation. Because most people can't read Hebrew and Greek (me included), the need existed to translate the existent manuscripts accurately into languages of different people groups worldwide.

    The KJV translation, with its archaic wording(obsolete in ordinary or modern language), is incomprehensible, frustrating, misleading (wrong personal interpretation), has bred ignorance in God's word and is a primary reason why so many professing Christians have never made it through the New Testament despite, in some cases, decades of church attendance.

    Some examples of these archaic expressions are vain janglings (1 Tim 1:6), superfluity of naughtiness (James 1:21), and abusers of themselves with mankind (1 Cor 6:9), etc. The terms are so unusual in todays world that many will never see those words again.

    I would even suspect that even decades-long KJV preachers do not know the meaning of these words, and they consult the modern reputable translations for their meaning in secret least they be found out. They need a translation of the KJV just to understand it. As a matter of fact, I happen to have a copy of The Defined King James Bible. It has helped me immensely to understand primitive words found in the KJV. Even Dr. D. A. Waite, the footnote author and editor of this bible says; The Defined King James Bible attempts to define archaic, obsolete, or uncommon English words that are found in the King James Bible. And his work in producing this bible does just that. I believe new converts would be at a loss as they struggle to learn God's truths about salvation and Christian living if all they had was a King James Bible to read from.

    I might add that the KJV is somewhat confusing as the wording represents God as one who "repents from doing evil" (Ex 32:14, Jonah 3:10). God is perfect and holy and has never needed to repent, because He can never commit any evil to repent of. You might also notice that the Holy Spirit is presented as an inanimate thing by the pronoun "itself" instead of the more appropriate and accurate "Himself" to reflect personhood (Rom 8:16, 8:26). Let me close this post out by saying there is nothing wrong with reading a modern reputable translation of God's word. Be assured, the Word of God existed before 1611.
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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  7. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by WMBillPrice View Post
    I'll get to the last point first. When I say KJVO, I am saying that the KJV is the preserved Word of God in English translation. I am not a judge against other translations, but again, my personal preference and belief.
    If you prefer the KJV then just say you prefer it. When you say KJVO you're communicating the belief that all other versions are corrupted or compromised. By saying the KJV is the preserved Word in English you're repeating that assertion. That's a lot different than saying you accept other versions but prefer the KJV.

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  9. #15
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    KJVO is very English-centric as if God cares particularly about Britain or the US, above people that don't or even cannot read the KJV.

    The only version of "the preserved Word of God" that makes sense is the hypothetical scenario where there is one preserved, authorative original manuscript for the entire New Testament and then all we need to do is learn Koine Greek instead of English. Well there isn't.

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  11. #16
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Brother Bill, the moment you labeled yourself as KJV Only, you put yourself into a class of many who are so stiff about the matter that no sane person wants to have a conversation with them about translations. The reason why you experienced push back so strongly comes from the whole spirit of this debate, started by those who air the KJV as the ONLY preserved word of God.

    God is no respecter of persons. He doesn't favor those who spoke this language over any other tribe on the whole planet. His Word is Truth and Life, no matter which language it is translated into.

    God bless

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  13. #17
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    I do read, write and speak Hebrew and I read Greek. I have sat and read the KJV side by side with the original languages. Sorry, but the KJV misses quite a lot of nuances. On the good side, it is a literal translation as opposed to a dynamic translation or a paraphrase. Unfortunately, it misses things on quite a number of issues and it seems to interpret the literal meanings in some places in such a way that the intention of the author is given Christian understanding rather than the original. A point of interest to me is a verse that speaks of the descendants of Abraham. The same word in Hebrew is used three times in the verse. It is translated twice as descendants (plural) and the third time as Seed (singular.) The clear intention of the translator is to introduce Jesus as the singular seed of Abraham. Unfortunately, that isn't what it says in the original language. The word is specifically plural in all three uses.

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  15. #18
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    I do read, write and speak Hebrew and I read Greek. I have sat and read the KJV side by side with the original languages. Sorry, but the KJV misses quite a lot of nuances. On the good side, it is a literal translation as opposed to a dynamic translation or a paraphrase. Unfortunately, it misses things on quite a number of issues and it seems to interpret the literal meanings in some places in such a way that the intention of the author is given Christian understanding rather than the original. A point of interest to me is a verse that speaks of the descendants of Abraham. The same word in Hebrew is used three times in the verse. It is translated twice as descendants (plural) and the third time as Seed (singular.) The clear intention of the translator is to introduce Jesus as the singular seed of Abraham. Unfortunately, that isn't what it says in the original language. The word is specifically plural in all three uses.
    Which verse is that ? The KJV doesn't use the word "descendants".

    BibleGateway - Keyword Search: descendants

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