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Thread: This I once believed (something completely different)

  1. #1

    This I once believed (something completely different)

    Just to be different.

    Do you consider Catholics to be Christians?

    I was raised in a very Catholic family and while watching a series on Martin Luther during the lock-down I was reminded of something I believed, what Catholics believe.

    Now like most Catholics I was never taught this in detail, so it was interesting to hear. It is about "The Treasury of Merit".

    Merit is something people earn. There are three types:
    • Condign merit – this is merit so virtuous it imposes an obligation on God to reward it. Yep, you're so good God HAS to take notice. Jesus earned heaps of this. So did Mary and Joseph and the original Apostles.
    • Congruous merit – this is merit suitable to make it fitting for God to reward it. Anyone can earn this merit by doing the appropriate "stuff".
    • Supererogation merit – this is merits for works above and beyond what God requires of us. e.g. God doesn't require us to be martyrs, so martyrdom gets you some supererogation merit.


    "And ..." you might ask.

    Well according to Catholic theology to get to heaven you have to be inherently righteous. Now bad people go to hell, the inherently righteous go to heaven, but the rest, they have blemishes and so they have to go to Purgatory (which is a place of suffering like hell) where those blemishes are purged. People can be there from days to millions of years depending on how blemished they are.

    In comes our merit. Jesus, and lots of other people, had more merit then they needed to get to heaven, so any excess is put in the treasury. From there is can be withdrawn and applied to others to reduce their time in Purgatory. Neat eh!

    Now you got this merit through Indulgences. You can get them for yourself by doing things; saying thing; seeing things, so making the Sign of the Cross apparently got you an Indulgence and so effective would reduce how long you'd have to spend in Purgatory after you died.

    But would you have enough when you died? Who knows? Well in 1300, and authorised as Catholic Doctrine in 1343, the Pope decided that he had the authority to sell merit from the treasury and it would be applied to the dead. Yep, pay the Pope and your Mum and Dad would no longer have to suffer.

    What is you Mum thinking now, in a place of unbearable suffering, knowing you're delaying her release into heaven? Give me your money and she goes free. That is the Catholic way of thinking.

    I believed that.

    Do you consider Catholics to be Christians?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Just to be different.

    Do you consider Catholics to be Christians?

    I was raised in a very Catholic family and while watching a series on Martin Luther during the lock-down I was reminded of something I believed, what Catholics believe.

    Now like most Catholics I was never taught this in detail, so it was interesting to hear. It is about "The Treasury of Merit".

    Merit is something people earn. There are three types:
    • Condign merit – this is merit so virtuous it imposes an obligation on God to reward it. Yep, you're so good God HAS to take notice. Jesus earned heaps of this. So did Mary and Joseph and the original Apostles.
    • Congruous merit – this is merit suitable to make it fitting for God to reward it. Anyone can earn this merit by doing the appropriate "stuff".
    • Supererogation merit – this is merits for works above and beyond what God requires of us. e.g. God doesn't require us to be martyrs, so martyrdom gets you some supererogation merit.


    "And ..." you might ask.

    Well according to Catholic theology to get to heaven you have to be inherently righteous. Now bad people go to hell, the inherently righteous go to heaven, but the rest, they have blemishes and so they have to go to Purgatory (which is a place of suffering like hell) where those blemishes are purged. People can be there from days to millions of years depending on how blemished they are.

    In comes our merit. Jesus, and lots of other people, had more merit then they needed to get to heaven, so any excess is put in the treasury. From there is can be withdrawn and applied to others to reduce their time in Purgatory. Neat eh!

    Now you got this merit through Indulgences. You can get them for yourself by doing things; saying thing; seeing things, so making the Sign of the Cross apparently got you an Indulgence and so effective would reduce how long you'd have to spend in Purgatory after you died.

    But would you have enough when you died? Who knows? Well in 1300, and authorised as Catholic Doctrine in 1343, the Pope decided that he had the authority to sell merit from the treasury and it would be applied to the dead. Yep, pay the Pope and your Mum and Dad would no longer have to suffer.

    What is you Mum thinking now, in a place of unbearable suffering, knowing you're delaying her release into heaven? Give me your money and she goes free. That is the Catholic way of thinking.

    I believed that.

    Do you consider Catholics to be Christians?
    I would be more apt to say that there are some Christians in the Catholic church.

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    FunFromOz (05-04-2020)

  4. #3
    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
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    >> Do you consider Catholics to be Christians?

    Some are, some aren't.

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    Member WMBillPrice's Avatar
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    My POV, for what it is worth. Any religion, any denomination or organization that puts salvation not on Christ, but on our own righteousness is a false religion and a cult. If you believe one can be saved by their deeds, made acceptable to God by what they do, then you are making that person a self-savior. Christ is neither the door nor the way. Do some in Catholicism trust in Jesus? Maybe, but for them to do so would not make them fully Catholic according to the teachings of the Vatican. So, some can be Christian, but the majority who hold to the dogma of Catholicism are still fallen short. Not my opinion, but that of the Word.

    But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:4-7 (KJV)
    Mind you, I have some very good friends who are Catholic. I pray they come to christ and that I can be a witness to them.

    My thoughts.

    Grace, Shalom, and Maranatha in Jesus name.
    William M. (Bill) Price

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    Ezekiel 33 (05-05-2020)

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