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Thread: Forseen as opposed to Forordained. How do you handle what this appears to say of God.

  1. #321
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    I had hoped I'd been asking the questions from different directions, looking at the reason behind the answers. My bad, so I'll back off.

    I've not really dealt with Open Theism, except anything I see of it seems to the total reverse of the Bible such as "God doesn't know ...". Any belief about God has to be Biblical.
    God doesn't foreordain everything :

    Mat 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

    God does know everything :

    Isa 41:21 "Present your case," says the Lord.
    "Bring forth your strong reasons," says the King of Jacob.
    22 "Let them bring forth and show us what will happen;
    Let them show the former things, what they were,
    That we may consider them,
    And know the latter end of them;
    Or declare to us things to come.
    23 Show the things that are to come hereafter,
    That we may know that you are gods;
    Yes, do good or do evil,
    That we may be dismayed and see it together.
    24 Indeed you are nothing,
    And your work is nothing;
    He who chooses you is an abomination.

    Which spells trouble for the simplistic systematics.

  2. #322
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    It's possible to interpret Catholic doctrine as sufficiently imprecise on this topic that a clarification was needed and that Calvinism was a clarification in the wrong direction. Martin Luther, the first Reformer, was correspondingly unclear and after his death there was a huge discussion among his pupils on what to place emphasis on in Luther's teachings, predestination or free will. Philip Melanchton prevailed with his emphasis on free will and that is the version that the Norwegian Lutheran church holds to. The Reformation process here in Norway during the 1500s pretty much eradicated both Catholicism and Calvinism. The majority of Norwegians are members of the Lutheran church, which was until a decade ago the state church. A very small minority of its members hold to anything that resembles Calvinist doctrine.
    My favorite Reformer is.......



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