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Thread: Calif. Bill Would Limit What Pastors Can Say about Homosexuality

  1. #1
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Calif. Bill Would Limit What Pastors Can Say about Homosexuality

    A California bill that that targets so-called "conversation therapy" for gays could have major consequences for religious liberty and even impact what pastors can say at conferences and in certain sermons, legal experts are warning.

    AB 2943, which passed the Assembly in April and is expected to pass the state Senate before the end of summer, would ban the advertising or sale of "sexual orientation change efforts" by counselors, even if an adult wants to pay for it. But it could have more far-reaching consequences that its supporters aren't acknowledging, says Alliance Defending Freedom, a religious liberty organization.

    The text of the bill says "sexual orientation change efforts" is defined as "any practices that seek to change an individual's sexual orientation."

    "This includes efforts to change behaviors or gender expressions, or to eliminate or reduce sexual or romantic attractions or feelings toward individuals of the same sex," the bill reads.

    An ADF memo said the bill would mean that:

    -- "A pastor paid to speak at an event addressing current social topics could not encourage attendees that they can prevail over same-sex desires or feelings that they were born the wrong sex."

    -- "A licensed counselor could not help a married mother of three who is experiencing unwanted attraction to a close female friend or confusion over her gender identity overcome those feelings."

    -- "A religious ministry could not hold a conference on maintaining sexual purity if the conference encourages attendees to avoid homosexual behavior."

    -- "A bookstore (including online bookstores like Amazon) could not sell many recently published books challenging gender identity ideology and advocating that these beliefs should be rejected by society."

    Alliance Defending Freedom Attorney Matt Sharp said the bill even would ban what pastors can tell people in their church.

    "It could be a violation if a pastor encourages a congregant to visit the church book store to purchase books that help people address sexual issues, perhaps including the Bible itself, which teaches about the importance of sexual purity within the confines of marriage between a man and woman," Sharp said.

    Supporters of the bill say it's needed to protect LGBT people.

    "There is nothing wrong with me," Democratic Assemblyman Evan Low, who is gay, said during testimony, according to the San Francisco Chronicle. "There is nothing wrong with members of the LGBT community."

    Others, though, say the bill bans counseling services that some adults want. California citizens who say they transitioned from gay to straight protested against the bill in June, the newspaper reported.

    "I have a message to the California Assembly: My wife, my 4-year-old daughter, my 1-year-old son and the baby in my wife's womb are not frauds," Jim Domen, founder of Church United in Newport Beach said during the protest. "Assembly Bill 2943 removes my right to choose my sexuality."

    https://www.christianheadlines.com/c...dlines%20Daily

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    The attempt to eradicate certain opinions from society (for instance that homosexual acts are morally wrong) is a form of totalitarianism. I'm not talking about opinions that state that others should be forced to comply to one's opinions (for instance criminalization of homosexual acts or homosexuals fundamentally being discriminated against in society).

    It's not that difficult to see how the same totalitarianism could produce laws in the future that are completely indifferent towards people who hold the opinions they are trying to eradicate. Meaning that pastors could be forced to perform gay marriages and there could be a gay quota involved with hiring employees, including for leadership positions in a church. Pro-lgbt messages could become obligatory from the pulpit.

  4. #3
    I heard a pastor who's active in that community (he came out of it) discussing this in detail.

    It is mainly to stop charlatan "therapists" who claim they can change homosexual folks to straight folks. And it had something to do with the money. So, he said, if someone asks for help, they can, but they can't charge them. Which isn't great for a therapist because that's how the make their living.

    I'm sure they'll find a work around.

    After hearing this guy (sorry, I've forgotten his name) I wasn't near as freaked out. Of course, that doesn't make for sensational posts/memes in the Christian community.

    but, then again, it's CA, so I'm sure there's other crap hiding beneath the surface.. and we all know it's only a matter of time.

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    I don't trust anything to do with the gay agenda...straight from the pit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Femme* View Post
    I heard a pastor who's active in that community (he came out of it) discussing this in detail.

    It is mainly to stop charlatan "therapists" who claim they can change homosexual folks to straight folks. And it had something to do with the money. So, he said, if someone asks for help, they can, but they can't charge them. Which isn't great for a therapist because that's how the make their living.

    I'm sure they'll find a work around.

    After hearing this guy (sorry, I've forgotten his name) I wasn't near as freaked out. Of course, that doesn't make for sensational posts/memes in the Christian community.

    but, then again, it's CA, so I'm sure there's other crap hiding beneath the surface.. and we all know it's only a matter of time.
    Some times the wording contained in laws has been formulated with a "better future" in mind. A future that is "better" than what "the voters" will allow today, that is. There are many agendaists that try to lay a foundation for what their peers will accomplish in the future. Margaret Sanger was one. Obama and Hillary Clinton are others. Hillary Clinton stated that religious beliefs need to be worn down, for instance. That doesn't happen within the space of a few years or within Hillary Clinton's lifetime but agendaists think in terms of a gradual process over many decades. High level politicians do in general but they aren't all as totalitarian and manipulative and anti-voters in their thinking. When Obama stated that he was against gay marriage during the 2008 election he knew very well where it would end and in that case it didn't take that long before his true opinions and intentions became apparent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Femme* View Post
    I heard a pastor who's active in that community (he came out of it) discussing this in detail.

    It is mainly to stop charlatan "therapists" who claim they can change homosexual folks to straight folks. And it had something to do with the money. So, he said, if someone asks for help, they can, but they can't charge them. Which isn't great for a therapist because that's how the make their living.

    I'm sure they'll find a work around.

    After hearing this guy (sorry, I've forgotten his name) I wasn't near as freaked out. Of course, that doesn't make for sensational posts/memes in the Christian community.

    but, then again, it's CA, so I'm sure there's other crap hiding beneath the surface.. and we all know it's only a matter of time.
    Regardless of the intent, the outcome will be that preachers of silenced on the subject. Read those bullet points again.

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    Senior Member Pentecali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Regardless of the intent, the outcome will be that preachers of silenced on the subject. Read those bullet points again.
    Absolutely. Several pastors & leaders here have come together from various denominations and went through this bill with a fine tooth comb. It is dangerous to say the least.

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  12. #8
    not saying it's not sucky.. just saying it's gotten a knee-jerk reaction, might be over-reaction

    It would be nice to see people of faith present their case without looking like wild-eyed lunatics. (which was part of what I liked about the guy I heard.)

    that doesn't help.

    I'd be willing to bet, at this time, there will be changes made, or it won't fly. We've gotten feisty lately.. dumped a judge and recalled a representative. We're not putting up with quite as much shenanigans.

    as for the bullet points.. those are what someone THINKS this MIGHT do.

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