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Thread: The nature of God's judgments in the Old Testament

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    The nature of God's judgments in the Old Testament

    Victoryword consistently teaches that God's judgments are exclusively permissive and that Satan or possibly the forces of nature are allowed to execute his judgments for him, He doesn't actively destroy. In the book of Exodus we see an example of judgment that could be interpreted like that, the destroying angel kills the firstborn of the land except where the Israelites had smeared the blood of a lamb on the doorpost. That could be interpreted as an angel of Satan being allowed to kill except where it couldn't because of the blood.

    Here's an other example of angels executing judgment :

    Gen 19:1 Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground.
    2 And he said, “Here now, my lords, please turn in to your servant’s house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise early and go on your way.”
    And they said, “No, but we will spend the night in the open square.”
    3 But he insisted strongly; so they turned in to him and entered his house. Then he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.

    If those are angels of Satan then it's strange that Lot calls them his lords and bows before them.

    4 Now before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both old and young, all the people from every quarter, surrounded the house. 5 And they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may know them carnally.”
    6 So Lot went out to them through the doorway, shut the door behind him, 7 and said, “Please, my brethren, do not do so wickedly! 8 See now, I have two daughters who have not known a man; please, let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you wish; only do nothing to these men, since this is the reason they have come under the shadow of my roof.”
    9 And they said, “Stand back!” Then they said, “This one came in to stay here, and he keeps acting as a judge; now we will deal worse with you than with them.” So they pressed hard against the man Lot, and came near to break down the door.

    The men of Sodom are wicked and seek to rape the angels whom they think are men.

    10 But the men reached out their hands and pulled Lot into the house with them, and shut the door. 11 And they struck the men who were at the doorway of the house with blindness, both small and great, so that they became weary trying to find the door.

    The angels strike them with blindness.

    12 Then the men said to Lot, “Have you anyone else here? Son-in-law, your sons, your daughters, and whomever you have in the city—take them out of this place! 13 For we will destroy this place, because the outcry against them has grown great before the face of the Lord, and the Lord has sent us to destroy it.”

    Their own testimony is that the Lord has sent them to destroy the place.

    14 So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who had married his daughters, and said, “Get up, get out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city!” But to his sons-in-law he seemed to be joking.
    15 When the morning dawned, the angels urged Lot to hurry, saying, “Arise, take your wife and your two daughters who are here, lest you be consumed in the punishment of the city.” 16 And while he lingered, the men took hold of his hand, his wife’s hand, and the hands of his two daughters, the Lord being merciful to him, and they brought him out and set him outside the city.

    In addition to destroying Sodom and Gomorra, the angels also execute the Lord's mercy by helping Lot's family get out of the city so that they won't be destroyed along with the others. That is a strange task for a Satanic angel, as Victoryword's theory concerning God's judgments dictates that they are, to serve God by doing good in addition to serving him by wielding destruction.

    17 So it came to pass, when they had brought them outside, that he[a] said, “Escape for your life! Do not look behind you nor stay anywhere in the plain. Escape to the mountains, lest you be destroyed.”
    18 Then Lot said to them, “Please, no, my lords! 19 Indeed now, your servant has found favor in your sight, and you have increased your mercy which you have shown me by saving my life; but I cannot escape to the mountains, lest some evil overtake me and I die. 20 See now, this city is near enough to flee to, and it is a little one; please let me escape there (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.”

    The (allegedly Satanic) angel is commended by Lot for increasing his mercy and for Lot having found favor in his sight, Lot's addressing him as if he's representing God himself.

    21 And he said to him, “See, I have favored you concerning this thing also, in that I will not overthrow this city for which you have spoken. 22 Hurry, escape there. For I cannot do anything until you arrive there.”

    Now the (allegedly Satanic) angel is speaking on behalf of God himself and extending His mercy beyond what Abraham moved God to do in the previous chapter.

    That is the strangest Satanic angel that I have ever heard of.

    And I've got to tell you, Victoryword's theory which makes God's judgments exclusively permissive, could not possibly have less merit in my eyes. In that form, that is.

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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Here is one from the NT:

    Acts 12:22-24 (NKJV)

    22 And the people kept shouting, “The voice of a god and not of a man!” 23 Then immediately an angel of the Lord struck him, because he did not give glory to God. And he was eaten by worms and died.

    24 But the word of God grew and multiplied.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    Here is one from the NT:
    The Old Testament isn't always clear about these things. Saul was tormented by "an evil spirit from the Lord" and similarly "lying spirits from the Lord" were speaking through false prophets. In one book, God incites David, in an other book, Satan incites David. It is clear that the two books are referring to the very same event. In the book of Job, God allows Satan to go after Job after having heard his accusations against him.

    In the New Testament there is no such confusion or obscurity. God might let someone be exposed to the elements rather than deal actively with them but if it says "the angel of the Lord" then that certainly isn't an angel of Satan.

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