Thread: Does Regeneration Precede Faith?

Questions is for Lcash:

1. How do you specifically define "hyper-Calvinist?"

2. What is the difference between a hyper-Calvinist and a five-point Calvinist?

3. Was John Calvin a five-point Calvinist?

On a side note, I was just a few days ago presented an argument along a similar vein.

It went something like:

God killed everyone outside the Ark,
Therefore God wanted everyone outside the Ark to be lost, which was most people
Therefore, God in a similar vein today intentionally puts most people "outside" the Ark and desires a similar fate for them.

This made perfect sense to the person presenting the claim.

God didn't "kill".. He brought judgment on them for their sin. God did not "put them" outside the ark, they chose that. They got what they wanted.

and, yes, it was everyone excepting Noah and family.

God, today, doesn't bring judgment like that.. as a matter of fact, He promised to not.. so the judgments they receive, for their sin, will come at death. However, there may be consequences of their sin while here.

And, yeah, it will be everyone, excepting those in His family.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

Context, context, context

13 Now, who will want to harm you if you are eager to do good? 14 But even if you suffer for doing what is right, God will reward you for it. So don’t worry or be afraid of their threats. 15 Instead, you must worship Christ as Lord of your life. And if someone asks about your hope as a believer, always be ready to explain it. 16 But do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ. 17 Remember, it is better to suffer for doing good, if that is what God wants, than to suffer for doing wrong!

18 Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit.

19 So he went and preached to the spirits in prison— 20 those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood. 21 And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

22 Now Christ has gone to heaven. He is seated in the place of honor next to God, and all the angels and authorities and powers accept his authority.

I was thinking about this :

19 So he went and preached to the spirits in prison—
20 those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat.

ONLY 8 PEOPLE WERE SAVED.

that's pretty clear.

How are you determining who, exactly, these "spirits in prison" are?

it's possible it's Noah's family, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Femme*

ONLY 8 PEOPLE WERE SAVED.

that's pretty clear.

How are you determining who, exactly, these "spirits in prison" are?

it's possible it's Noah's family, isn't it?

They didn't disobey.

Originally Posted by Femme*

God didn't "kill".. He brought judgment on them for their sin. God did not "put them" outside the ark, they chose that. They got what they wanted.

and, yes, it was everyone excepting Noah and family.

God, today, doesn't bring judgment like that.. as a matter of fact, He promised to not.. so the judgments they receive, for their sin, will come at death. However, there may be consequences of their sin while here.

And, yeah, it will be everyone, excepting those in His family.

I sure wish I had had time for this discussion..

Quick question about this, "God did not "put them" outside the ark, they chose that. They got what they wanted."

Help me understand this statement. Scripture tells us in Adam ALL were condemned..All were born under the curse. They were not BORN saved and then fell when they committed their first sin. You say they all chose but we KNOW babies had not yet committed any personal sin yet they died in the flood along with the others.

Noah preached to them the entire time the ark was being built so was that not God giving opportunity TO choose?
So again that begs the question does a JUST God 'offer salvation' to those He has already decided to condemn? If so, why?

It just does not jive with His nature to me...All sinned so ALL supposedly CHOSE Hell because all were blind. God decides to enlighten some and others leave in the dark though all deserve Hell...

It makes far more sense that God would give everyone an enlightened opportunity and THEN they actually see the two choices and make a real choice.

If God does not enlighten, there is NO choice..the blind, born blind, are left blind, period.

Yes, God won't destroy the wicked with a flood but they are still 'outside the ark' of salvation and have no choice because we (I believe agree) know that without enlightenment no one is saved..

So all are born blind..and ALL have no choice about that condition. All are born under the curse of Adam's fall. If God only chooses to enlighten some and leave the other's blind there is no such thing as choice.