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Thread: Matthew 18:15-19

  1. #11
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Very well could be applicable universally. Just have to find other scriptures to support those same principles in a general sense. For instance, didn't Jesus in Matthew 16:19 talk about binding and loosing also out of this context? So definitely binding and loosing is not limited to that context of the two or three who went to restore him using binding and loosing for the trespassers benefit in order to help restore him.
    I didn't say that it wasn't applicable to verses 15-18 as well, just that verse 19 broadens it to where it also includes asking in prayer along with other believers. This is not "either/or".

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    I agree...was surprised to find some who believe it spoke only to discipline..

  4. #13
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    I agree...was surprised to find some who believe it spoke only to discipline..
    Some times people get hung up on one possible intepretation and lock themselves into fending off every other possible one.

  5. #14
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    I agree...was surprised to find some who believe it spoke only to discipline..
    It does only speak to discipline...in its context. Nothing else is being talked about there but restoring the trespasser. No other subject. And v. 18-20 is said in that context. In order to interpret that any other way you have to have scriptures to support it being a principle that goes beyond the context. Like I mentioned earlier, Matt. 16 talks about binding and loosing in another context. So we know binding and loosing is not limited to discipline. But to use Matt. 18 as your sole text for teaching binding and loosing in general would be to use that scripture wrong. In order to teach binding and loosing properly, you would first have to use the generic scriptures, then use Matt. 18 as an example of using it in a specific situation.

  6. #15
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    It does only speak to discipline...in its context. Nothing else is being talked about there but restoring the trespasser. No other subject. And v. 18-20 is said in that context. In order to interpret that any other way you have to have scriptures to support it being a principle that goes beyond the context. Like I mentioned earlier, Matt. 16 talks about binding and loosing in another context. So we know binding and loosing is not limited to discipline. But to use Matt. 18 as your sole text for teaching binding and loosing in general would be to use that scripture wrong. In order to teach binding and loosing properly, you would first have to use the generic scriptures, then use Matt. 18 as an example of using it in a specific situation.
    How does 'anything that they may ask," not broaden the application from the discipline of a single person?

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  8. #16
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    How does 'anything that they may ask," not broaden the application from the discipline of a single person?
    Because it's being taught in a particular context. It's not meant to expand but directly apply to the teaching Jesus is conveying. Whatever they may ask concerning restoring the one who has trespassed. Notice Peter's question right after that. Still in context with the teaching, a question about forgiveness in light of Jesus teaching on how to handle one that's trespassed against you. How many times should I forgive a person who has trespassed against me? All in context.

    But we have other scriptures from other teachings of Jesus that put 'whatever you ask' in a more broader sense. Mark 11:24 would be one, and there's more. I know it can sound 'expanded'. I agree. But we just have to keep it in context. Plenty of other scriptures like I said that don't limit what we can ask. Mark 11:24 is more like an umbrella that many things to ask about could come under. Again, it's just a more specific application in the Matt. 18 passage.

    Anyway, I don't want to belabor the point. I can't explain it any clearer than that. If you and Colonel and CS think it expands it, no problem. It doesn't hurt anything. And the principle is taught elsewhere in the Bible. So any other question about this anybody has to me about it just go back and read what I've already said.

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    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Because it's being taught in a particular context. It's not meant to expand but directly apply to the teaching Jesus is conveying. Whatever they may ask concerning restoring the one who has trespassed. Notice Peter's question right after that. Still in context with the teaching, a question about forgiveness in light of Jesus teaching on how to handle one that's trespassed against you. How many times should I forgive a person who has trespassed against me? All in context.

    But we have other scriptures from other teachings of Jesus that put 'whatever you ask' in a more broader sense. Mark 11:24 would be one, and there's more. I know it can sound 'expanded'. I agree. But we just have to keep it in context. Plenty of other scriptures like I said that don't limit what we can ask. Mark 11:24 is more like an umbrella that many things to ask about could come under. Again, it's just a more specific application in the Matt. 18 passage.

    Anyway, I don't want to belabor the point. I can't explain it any clearer than that. If you and Colonel and CS think it expands it, no problem. It doesn't hurt anything. And the principle is taught elsewhere in the Bible. So any other question about this anybody has to me about it just go back and read what I've already said.
    I agree with fuego here.

    I held a meeting years ago of several nights in a church in Illinois. I prayed for the sick that night and in my praying I bound the disease and loosed faith and healing, etc. After service the Pastor buttonholed me and told me I was using the verse wrong, that it was only talking about church discipline. I mentioned Matt 16 to him, but did not press the matter as I did not want to harm the spirit of revival we were having.

    Yes I agree with fuego here. The concept is used in other places in scripture and can be used thus.

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  12. #18
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Because it's being taught in a particular context. It's not meant to expand but directly apply to the teaching Jesus is conveying. Whatever they may ask concerning restoring the one who has trespassed. Notice Peter's question right after that. Still in context with the teaching, a question about forgiveness in light of Jesus teaching on how to handle one that's trespassed against you. How many times should I forgive a person who has trespassed against me? All in context.

    But we have other scriptures from other teachings of Jesus that put 'whatever you ask' in a more broader sense. Mark 11:24 would be one, and there's more. I know it can sound 'expanded'. I agree. But we just have to keep it in context. Plenty of other scriptures like I said that don't limit what we can ask. Mark 11:24 is more like an umbrella that many things to ask about could come under. Again, it's just a more specific application in the Matt. 18 passage.

    Anyway, I don't want to belabor the point. I can't explain it any clearer than that. If you and Colonel and CS think it expands it, no problem. It doesn't hurt anything. And the principle is taught elsewhere in the Bible. So any other question about this anybody has to me about it just go back and read what I've already said.
    I understand....and that is certainly something to take to prayer and contemplation....For me at this point it is a matter of considering it IN context...as noted how very often it is quoted OUT of context...thanks for your input.

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  14. #19
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post

    I mentioned Matt 16 to him, but did not press the matter as I did not want to harm the spirit of revival we were having.

    .

    Godly wisdom as revival is more important than haggling over this point

    It can be discussed at a different time under different circumstances

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  16. #20
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    I agree with fuego here.

    I held a meeting years ago of several nights in a church in Illinois. I prayed for the sick that night and in my praying I bound the disease and loosed faith and healing, etc. After service the Pastor buttonholed me and told me I was using the verse wrong, that it was only talking about church discipline. I mentioned Matt 16 to him, but did not press the matter as I did not want to harm the spirit of revival we were having.

    Yes I agree with fuego here. The concept is used in other places in scripture and can be used thus.
    Absolutely....it's great to discuss things in the right setting...really all revivals have been weakened by divisiveness over interpretations....

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