So I just heard TD Jakes tell a couple to get divorced...

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Originally Posted by BAP

Again watch the show ..

She seemed like an unbeliever to me or at least she sounded like one .. Not sure how that's relevant though.


The laws of marriage are the same whether or not you are dealing with an unbeliever

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It's relevant because believers are accountable to GOD..unbelievers are not..that is why the unbeliever is allowed to leave and the believer under no penalty...they are condemned already. But that cannot be assumed based on behavior...

That should have been a question Mr Jakes asked first..then deal with them from the scriptures as believers...

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Originally Posted by Colonel

A covenant typically includes conditions that render it void. The new covenant is made void when someone turns back to unbelief for instance. Then Christ disowns the person before the angels in heaven and is no longer in covenant with the person.

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I see no such variables for marriage....

And are you SURE a covenant is rendered VOID..where do you see that in scripture?

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Originally Posted by Quest

I see no such variables for marriage....

And are you SURE a covenant is rendered VOID..where do you see that in scripture?

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It means that the person is no longer in the new covenant with the Lord if he turns back to the unbelief. You may call that whatever you want.

There are specific mentions of allowing divorce in the case of adultery and when the other person is an unbeliever and wants out, you should know that.

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Originally Posted by Quest

All irrelevant to what I said..I kind of doubt the underlined portion was actually done...rarely will a woman leave a man who is loving her the way Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it...

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Oh please women leave men all the time who love them :)

Again watch the show . The woman herself acknowledges that the guy was good to her but she wanted out anyway

And yes very relevant... Again the woman had already filed .. the divorce process was already in place . TD Jakes couldnt stop it if he tried . Basically his advice was to get the man to accept it heal and move on and for the woman to get healing ..

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Originally Posted by Quest

It's relevant because believers are accountable to GOD..unbelievers are not..that is why the unbeliever is allowed to leave and the believer under no penalty...they are condemned already. But that cannot be assumed based on behavior...

That should have been a question Mr Jakes asked first..then deal with them from the scriptures as believers...

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So if an unbeliever wants to leave ..No problemo ? But if a believer wants to leave you force them to stay against their will ?
Tell me where in the bible are we forced into anything against our will ?

Even if it were a believer who is walking and behaving like an unbeliever doesn't Paul say we should treat them like Unbeliever? Doesnt he say that Believers who fail to live up to their familial responsibilities be considered worse than infidels ?

So we are permitted to leave an unbeliever but not permitted to leave a believer who is worse than an infidel and has departed the faith ? :)

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Originally Posted by Colonel

It means that the person is no longer in the new covenant with the Lord if he turns back to the unbelief. You may call that whatever you want.

There are specific mentions of allowing divorce in the case of adultery and when the other person is an unbeliever and wants out, you should know that.

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Unbeliever..no longer in new covenant with the Lord? So you believe anyone who backslides is lost? Hmmm you owe VW an apology then :D

You may call that whatever YOU want..I see unbeliever as infidel..someone not in relationship with God through the new birth or someone who has become a reprobate without conscience...Not someone who has not attained perfection or may even be backsliding..(all the MORE reason to challenge them to make the right decision regarding their covenant than to encourage them to continue to harden their selfish heart through divorce)

Biblical variables of Adultery or an unbeliever...not 'he wont' work' or 'she lied about me having to support her and 6 kids'..

Seriously...Christians can always find fault with their spouse's walk, even if they are doing well in it...

Like I said, this splitting hairs to try to justify divorce is exactly why so many Christian marriages have been flushed down the toilet..when a relationship is struggling one can always find someone to tell them their divorce is justified because we are imperfect people married to imperfect people...but without excuse because we are in relationship with a perfect God to whom nothing is impossible...and He wants to do all possible to prevent divorce in someone willing to let Him...

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Originally Posted by Quest

Unbeliever..no longer in new covenant with the Lord? So you believe anyone who backslides is lost? Hmmm you owe VW an apology then :D

You may call that whatever YOU want..I see unbeliever as infidel..someone not in relationship with God through the new birth or someone who has become a reprobate without conscience...Not someone who has not attained perfection or may even be backsliding..(all the MORE reason to challenge them to make the right decision regarding their covenant than to encourage them to continue to harden their selfish heart through divorce)

Biblical variables of Adultery or an unbeliever...not 'he wont' work' or 'she lied about me having to support her and 6 kids'..

Seriously...Christians can always find fault with their spouse's walk, even if they are doing well in it...

Like I said, this splitting hairs to try to justify divorce is exactly why so many Christian marriages have been flushed down the toilet..when a relationship is struggling one can always find someone to tell them their divorce is justified because we are imperfect people married to imperfect people...but without excuse because we are in relationship with a perfect God to whom nothing is impossible...and He wants to do all possible to prevent divorce in someone willing to let Him...

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But where in the program did Bishop Jakes tell her her divorce was justified ?

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Originally Posted by Quest

Unbeliever..no longer in new covenant with the Lord? So you believe anyone who backslides is lost? Hmmm you owe VW an apology then :D

You may call that whatever YOU want..I see unbeliever as infidel..someone not in relationship with God through the new birth or someone who has become a reprobate without conscience...Not someone who has not attained perfection or may even be backsliding..(all the MORE reason to challenge them to make the right decision regarding their covenant than to encourage them to continue to harden their selfish heart through divorce)

Biblical variables of Adultery or an unbeliever...not 'he wont' work' or 'she lied about me having to support her and 6 kids'..

Seriously...Christians can always find fault with their spouse's walk, even if they are doing well in it...

Like I said, this splitting hairs to try to justify divorce is exactly why so many Christian marriages have been flushed down the toilet..when a relationship is struggling one can always find someone to tell them their divorce is justified because we are imperfect people married to imperfect people...but without excuse because we are in relationship with a perfect God to whom nothing is impossible...and He wants to do all possible to prevent divorce in someone willing to let Him...

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What are you talking about ? I said someone who turns back to unbelief.

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Originally Posted by BAP

So if an unbeliever wants to leave ..No problemo ? But if a believer wants to leave you force them to stay against their will ?
Tell me where in the bible are we forced into anything against our will ?

Hmmm....that statement has nothing to do with anything I said...so I don't even need to try to answer it.

Even if it were a believer who is walking and behaving like an unbeliever doesn't Paul say we should treat them like Unbeliever? Doesnt he say that Believers who fail to live up to their familial responsibilities be considered worse than infidels ?

Considered worse than is not the same as IS an infidel...so treating someone like an unbeliever and them actually being one are not the same thing. Besides that is speaking of how the church does correction, not how a spouse views a spouse..I believe to take scriptures out of context and try to interpret what scripture says regarding marriage and divorce is not a good idea and not sound exegetical Bible study.

So were are permitted to leave an unbeliever but not permitted to leave a believer who is worse than an infidel and has departed the faith ? :)

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Believers are not permitted to leave (except for adultery and even then there is a better way)...an unbeliever is permitted to leave US...

Acting worse than an infidel is not to actually BE an infidel...so no..

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Originally Posted by Colonel

What are you talking about ? I said someone who turns back to unbelief.

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Maybe you need to clarify what you mean when you say ''It means that the person is no longer in the new covenant with the Lord if he turns back to the unbelief. You may call that whatever you want.'