Thread: What's the Problem with Joel Osteen

Originally Posted by Nikos

Todd White? Who dat?

He's an example of a minister that gets invited to speak in many types of churches but, that I know of, not in black churches.

Originally Posted by Colonel

I was talking about fellowship between American Pentecostal/charismatic churches that are culturally black and those that are not. Why Todd White speaks in all kinds of the latter but not in the former etc. Why is it like that when they share the same American language, largely the same theology and neither group exhibits racism ?

It's very complicated. America is still largely divided by the complexities of culture and race. Some of it perhaps is a matter of taste and style in music, worship, different outlook on life and to add to it, in recent years, we've become more polarized due to the media, politics and emotions. Some people just seem to evolve where they are culturally comfortable (I guess).

In my opinion, the government and media has worked hand in hand to divide and stir up racial tension- seems pretty obvious to me. The church is supposed to rise above it but then again, human feelings and emotion can cloud even the brightest minds. Sometimes people just get exhausted with it all and don't feel the effort is worth it. Life is complex enough without heaping on more challenges. At least this is what I've heard from several.

There are also so many subcultures within the church. I don't have time right now to go into the details of it but some of these groups push for a multi cultural church environment while others are more racially exclusive

There are plenty of immigrant churches here in Oslo for people from specific nations or languages but many immigrants also attend the larger Pentecostal/Charismatic churches. We don't have a history of slavery or racism of course. Do preachers from black churches get invited to the other churches, that shouldn't be as difficult for those attending ?

I don't see any preachers from black churches that speak internationally, why is that ? There are several African preachers on God TV.

Yep

Originally Posted by Smitty

I will give Joel credit for standing firm in stating that homosexuality is sin.

Yes, that is the fundamental. He sounds like he thinks that living a compartmentalized life with a Christian confession on one hand and practicing all kinds of sin on the other is unproblematic in terms of maintaining salvation. His statements that "there are many paths to Jesus" and "Jesus can reveal himself to anyone" are really fuzzy and can be interpreted as people finding "Jesus" outside of the Christian religion as well.

Originally Posted by Colonel

There are plenty of immigrant churches here in Oslo for people from specific nations or languages but many immigrants also attend the larger Pentecostal/Charismatic churches. We don't have a history of slavery or racism of course. Do preachers from black churches get invited to the other churches, that shouldn't be as difficult for those attending ?

I don't see any preachers from black churches that speak internationally, why is that ? There are several African preachers on God TV.

I honestly can't answer these questions. I really don't know

Originally Posted by Smitty

Joel says in this clip that he doesn't think God categorizes sin. Yet Jesus told Pilate he (Judas) who delivered Me up to you has the greater sin (Jn 19:11).
Jesus mentioned that the Pharisee's would also receive a greater damnation (Mk 12:40).
Paul said the sins of some men are quite evident, going before them to judgment; for others, their sins follow after (1 Tim5:24).
God keeps account of all sins committed, know matter how blatant they are, and will judge the secrets of men (Rom 2:16).
Of coarse, a person who rejects Jesus, will die in their sins (Jn 8:24). How tragic!
I will give Joel credit for standing firm in stating that homosexuality is sin.

This is very good!

I find in Romans that the sexual immorality of homosexuality is the result OF advanced sinful state,..not 'just another sin'

26*For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is [r]unnatural, 27*and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing [s]indecent acts and receiving in [t]their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28*And just as they did not see fit [u]to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29*being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30*slanderers, [v]haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31*without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32*and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

Now I get that sin period brings condemnation on humans....but there is NO denying the progression of depravity of those who willfully and knowingly choose to advance in it crucifying the conscience..even some going to church every Sunday...