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Thread: Christus victor or Penal substitution

  1. #51
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    How does that work with your theology where Christians stand before God having died with faith in Christ in their hearts and the Holy Spirit sealing them for redemption and then he casts them into hell because he isn't sufficiently pleased with their walk ?
    A comment on the above idea :

    John 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

    When he says "most assuredly" then we should pay close attention. The one who believes and has life in the Spirit and who stands before God after dying cannot be told that God will cast him into hell anyway on account of his less than pleasing walk, precisely because he "shall not come into judgment". He is talking about the great white throne judgment of course and not about the judgment seat of Christ where rewards or loss of rewards will be awarded according to our works in him. His work may burn down to the ground and he himself be saved as through fire but a loss of salvation itself is "most assuredly" out of the question.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    Hebrew is a funny language, Greek is a bit clearer at the detail level.

    2 Cor 5:20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.
    21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

    God made Jesus to be sin for us, for short. Koine Greek verbs have three voices : active, middle or passive. The word translated as "made" is in the active voice. That means at the very least that God actively treated Jesus as if he had been sin itself.

    Here is a link to approximately 40 different translations that the site has for the verse :

    http://www.biblestudytools.com/2-cor...1-compare.html

    None of them render God's act as passive or permissive.

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  4. #53
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    To address the OP. Both concepts are contained in this verse, penal substitution and christus victor :

    Romans 4:25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

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