Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ... 678
Results 71 to 77 of 77

Thread: Everyone in hell is forgiven

  1. #71
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,640
    Thanked: 5995
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    So God expects us to forgive our enemies before they repent but He refuses to do so?

    You are equating 2 different positions

    As humans we are to walk in forgiveness as it has a number of benefits to the forgiver. Our forgiveness to others does not free them from their sins and actions

    From God's perspective he is perfect and does not need any benefits. He is also JUDGE and that is part of his nature. God CANNOT give forgiveness unless a person has saving faith in Jesus Christ. He sent Jesus for that very reason so he can forgive everyone as he is willing.


    Jesus made it clear those who do not believe he is the saviour will die in their sins.
    Die in their sins means this is how God saw them spiritually - humans were not automatically forgiven because of the cross they needed specific cleansing of sin

    John 8:24 - Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.



    God is a judge...that is part of his nature and we cannot dismiss it and expect him to forgive people without repentance
    Heb 13:4 - Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

  2. #72
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,640
    Thanked: 5995
    Blog Entries
    2
    Paul's final letter ...by this stage he had received his greatest revelations about love, mercy, forgiveness and yet he could write some incredibly tough words against a evil person.
    Paul is not praying for forgiveness or for his salvation. Paul knew that this guy had crossed the line and probably blasphemed the Holy Spirit and will never be saved

    Paul was leaving him in God's hand and was appealing to God as JUDGE for vindication
    God had not forgiven Alexander of his sins at the cross, his works were evil...he had heard the gospel and had probably seen miracles but he had hardened his heart


    2Ti 4:14 - Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm. May the Lord repay him according to his works.
    2Ti 4:15 - You also must beware of him, for he has greatly resisted our words.

  3. #73
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    16,274
    Thanked: 14131
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    Also, I just had another thought as I was typing that-- In Acts 19 Paul shows a difference in the baptism of John and being baptized into Jesus. So with that, I would have to say that the Ethiopian was preached "repent and be baptized for the remission of sins" just like Peter did in Acts 2.
    I agree. The fact he asked to be baptized means Phillip said something to him about baptism. Like in Acts 14, the man at Lystra, it says Paul perceived the man had faith to be healed. You would have to assume that Paul then preached healing in some shape or form at some point in his message. Otherwise where did the faith to be healed come from (faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God). He wouldn't have even known about healing and had faith for it unless Paul mentioned it somewhere along the line.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to fuego For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (05-01-2017)

  5. #74
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    I agree. The fact he asked to be baptized means Phillip said something to him about baptism. Like in Acts 14, the man at Lystra, it says Paul perceived the man had faith to be healed. You would have to assume that Paul then preached healing in some shape or form at some point in his message. Otherwise where did the faith to be healed come from (faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God). He wouldn't have even known about healing and had faith for it unless Paul mentioned it somewhere along the line.
    That was a Gentile from a city far away from Israel and he was unlikely to be acquainted with the message that Jesus preached before his crucifixion. The situation earlier in the book of Acts is different, they were preaching to Jews who were typically acquainted with the message Jesus himself had preached only two months before, which included having his disciples baptize people in water. They were also acquainted with the baptism of John which was one to repentance along the lines of standard Judaism. It is likely that many of the Rabbis that gained followers during that time baptized their disciples in water. We do not know much about the Ethiopian eunuch and how well he was acquainted with the religious practices of the region of Israel at that time. His travel to Jerusalem may have been a reoccuring one meaning he was well acquainted or he may have been acquainted only with what can be read about in the old testament and there isn't much about baptism there.
    I'm not saying that Philip did not preach baptism in water to him, rather that the Ethiopian may have been acquainted with water baptism as a public statement of adherance to a rabbi or direction and as a sign of repentance. The Gentiles Paul was dealing with in 1 Cor were most probably not, which made for a different situation.

  6. #75
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    Unforgiveness has an element of insisting that justice (including the highest form) should not release or give amnesty to the offender. It has an element of setting oneself up as judge and then judging with evil thoughts. God cannot do that because he is the highest justice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    You are equating 2 different positions

    As humans we are to walk in forgiveness as it has a number of benefits to the forgiver. Our forgiveness to others does not free them from their sins and actions

    From God's perspective he is perfect and does not need any benefits. He is also JUDGE and that is part of his nature. God CANNOT give forgiveness unless a person has saving faith in Jesus Christ. He sent Jesus for that very reason so he can forgive everyone as he is willing.


    Jesus made it clear those who do not believe he is the saviour will die in their sins.
    Die in their sins means this is how God saw them spiritually - humans were not automatically forgiven because of the cross they needed specific cleansing of sin

    John 8:24 - Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.



    God is a judge...that is part of his nature and we cannot dismiss it and expect him to forgive people without repentance
    Heb 13:4 - Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

  7. #76
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    I just read the account about the Ethiopian eunuch again. It says that he was on his way home after having worshipped at Jerusalem. That was an extremely long journey and it's likely that he had stayed in Jerusalem for weeks or months. The account says that the purpose of his stay was to worship so he must have updated himself to some degree about the Jewish practices of that region and time while staying there and was probably acquainted with the concept of water baptism as a sign of repentance and adherance.

  8. #77
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    An article on baptism in Judaism :

    http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/2456-baptism

    Though baptism as such isn't discussed in the OT, it is still part of the rituals involved. It became mandatory in the initiation of proselytes which is what the Ethiopian eunuch most likely was. So he had been baptized previously and this was his baptism specifically into becoming a follower of Jesus.

    Here's another link :

    http://www.bible.ca/ef/topical-bapti...an-history.htm

    "Toward the beginning of the Christian era, the Jews adopted (as a custom unrelated to Divine guidance) the custom of baptizing proselytes seven days after their circumcision. A series of specific interrogations made it possible to judge the real intentions of the candidate who wished to adopt the Jewish religion. After submitting to these interrogations, he was circumcised and later baptized before witnesses. In the baptism, he was immersed naked in a pool of flowing water; when he rose from the pool, he was a true son of Israel. After their baptism, new converts were allowed access to the sacrifices in the Temple."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Has your Kia Optima warranty expired? Get a fast online quote from CarWarrantyUS today. Enjoy the open road and leave the repairs to us.