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Thread: The Shack Thread redux

  1. #11
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    A choice that is overwhelmed until it literally cannot but comply, just like the Calvinist believes. The language sounds Arminian but the content is Calvinist. Except for the limited vs unlimited atonement part.
    He uses the word choose...and participate....

    He said both Election and universalis are determinant and he does not agree

  2. #12
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    He's described as a hopeful universalist which probably means that he promotes both that and Arminianism, potential atonement as the default but definite atonement as what ultimately should become a fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    He's described as a hopeful universalist which probably means that he promotes both that and Arminianism, potential atonement as the default but definite atonement as what ultimately should become a fact.
    That's where he is indecisive...he is unwilling to close the door on possible acceptance in the afterlife but acknowledges he has no evidence for this....that is what makes him 'hopeful universalist'. I can understand why he keeps that door open...he relates heavily to God as a parent and has not been able to reconcile that God who is a loving father would ever permanently close that door...but he does leave that open ended in that he makes no conclusion that some in the afterlife will turn...that is why he is hopeful...he knows he has no solid ground scripturally for it.

    In the story of the prodigal we don't see the Father closing that option of return...and I don't either...but I do see HIM drawing the age of humanity to a close and that door closing...not out of revenge or desire to punish but as a necessity for the ones who returned home...

    Knowing the Holy Spirit the way I do, I have found myself in such a quandary, halted between two opinions and needing Holy Spirit to marry them into Absolute Truth so I can go from that place of seeing the 3rd option. I pray he comes to see the God who is love 'has' to close that door. Just like the story of Saul and the Amalekites...Sometimes Papa has to make really hard choices to protect the children who come into the fold...

    I do disagree with him there as I see in scripture where that door does shut...where it is shut BY US...maybe that is what he cannot see....that that irresistible love IS resistible to some...as hard as it is to imagine...scripture tells us it is so...

    BUT the response of some that if there is anything askew all is contaminated...he has opened my vision of relationship to a deeper level...makes me sad because they are tossing the baby out with the water, IMHO. Would be far more productive in the Kingdom to open a true dialogue...

    Why would they not? Fear...Fear that if they agree at any level they are affirming all of it....sort of like the discussion on wine....if I admit drinking a little wine is not a sin I am opening the door saying all drinking is permissible...better to just close that door all together even if scripture says otherwise...

    Default from one extreme to another.... That is so far from Berean...

  4. #14
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    If we are talking about speculation. Based on everything I know about God there is no way that he is going to make an exception for every human being meaning that only Satan and his angels end up in the lake of fire forever. I am not a hopeful universalist to any degree whatsoever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    If we are talking about speculation. Based on everything I know about God there is no way that he is going to make an exception for every human being meaning that only Satan and his angels end up in the lake of fire forever. I am not a hopeful universalist to any degree whatsoever.
    Truth that God Is LOVE does not force us there...I am not sure why such a huge proponent of CHOICE as he is, that he has not come to accept that...guess we are full circle, since he does not believe in determinant as in one CAN'T resist, he simply can't wrap his mind around the concept that anyone would if the were face to face with His fiery love..

    I wonder if has desperate need to remain OFF the judgment seat seems to force him to a level of optimism even scripture does not support...

    I think we ALL have struggles in coming into alignment with absolute truth from time to time and have to wait on the Holy Spirit to reveal it at a transforming level...God is Spirit and our humanity cannot understand HIM apart from that....and from time to time scripture challenges us to see what we can't see....until we LET HIM open our eyes...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    If we are talking about speculation. Based on everything I know about God there is no way that he is going to make an exception for every human being meaning that only Satan and his angels end up in the lake of fire forever. I am not a hopeful universalist to any degree whatsoever.
    PS...yes the chapter on Hell in his book is purely speculation and he writes it as such...He asks 'what if' questions...so far I am on chapter 5 and none of these take that approach...it as clear to me after reading it, he is speculating...

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