Thread: Fallen Ministers - Entitled to Full Resoration?

Originally Posted by Quest

How others VIEW the repentant is not actually what I am addressing. As a matter of fact I think in large part it is irrelevant. IF his repentance is sincere and GOD who knows his heart restores him to ministry by sending him forth and then MAN decides he is disqualified and gets in the way or at least defames him as he goes...who REALLY has the problem here?

How significant really is our 'reputation' with people in God's Kingdom work? Again, if they are sent by God and rejected by men, who really has the problem?

Why don't you deal with the scripture that says the exact opposite of what you just said ?

Quest, have you checked in with the wife and three children who got junked? Will you be offering them grace as well? defending the widow and orphans? Can you make them whole? Restore them?

It's kind of telling that the focus here for those of you who are "grace" filled have focused your mercies on the wrong doer.

Originally Posted by John

Quest, have you checked in with the wife and three children who got junked? Will you be offering them grace as well? defending the widow and orphans? Can you make them whole? Restore them?

While I never, ever condoned what he did at the time (still think he was being stupid and led by the wrong brain), the responsibility of the wounded, in any situation, is to forgive and seek healing and restoration on their own. Their TESTIMONY becomes that of the survivor of THEIR woundedness, not staying in the victim mentality.

Every situation of adultery and divorce and remarriage has the perpetrator and the victim. They each have the CHOICE of repentance, forgiveness, and restoration, and also reconciliation in some form.

For the "junked" wife and kids to hold onto their unforgiveness, judgement and pain will only affect their lives, not the one who moved on, as painful as that might be.

I've been in the ministry of inner healing and deliverance for almost 25 yrs. It's always the responsibility of the wounded to forgive.

It would be a lovely, fairytale world if nothing bad ever happened to people... more often than not, it's someone's choices that cause the woundedness.

Originally Posted by A.J.

While I never, ever condoned what he did at the time (still think he was being stupid and led by the wrong brain), the responsibility of the wounded, in any situation, is to forgive and seek healing and restoration on their own. Their TESTIMONY becomes that of the survivor of THEIR woundedness, not staying in the victim mentality.

Every situation of adultery and divorce and remarriage has the perpetrator and the victim. They each have the CHOICE of repentance, forgiveness, and restoration, and also reconciliation in some form.

For the "junked" wife and kids to hold onto their unforgiveness, judgement and pain will only affect their lives, not the one who moved on, as painful as that might be.

I've been in the ministry of inner healing and deliverance for almost 25 yrs. It's always the responsibility of the wounded to forgive.

It would be a lovely, fairytale world if nothing bad ever happened to people... more often than not, it's someone's choices that cause the woundedness.

Well, you seem to be pretty rigid in regards to the responsibilities of the victims.


kinda loosey-goosey with the wrong doer.


not surprised.

Originally Posted by John

Quest, have you checked in with the wife and three children who got junked? Will you be offering them grace as well? defending the widow and orphans? Can you make them whole? Restore them?

John...really? Are you actually ASKING this?

If they are trusting the Lord YES, He is absolutely leading them in the path of provision and blessing..
If they are walking in judgment, un-forgiveness and bitterness, His hands are tied..

I never said MY grace could do anything...
So now you are trying to use emotional manipulation to win a discussion you can't win scripturally?

John, what makes me sad is to realize that you don't seem to grasp the beauty and power of grace..that you seem to believe even the repentant still should be punished..you do realize that the way you judge others you will be judged? That if you believe even the repentant should still be punished, that you resent the truly free, you must believe that you should still be as well and that means you have not received your true liberty...

It's a beautiful thing to be worthy of death, yet forgiven and FREE...the one who understands he has been forgiven much...loves much...

Originally Posted by A.J.

While I never, ever condoned what he did at the time (still think he was being stupid and led by the wrong brain), the responsibility of the wounded, in any situation, is to forgive and seek healing and restoration on their own. Their TESTIMONY becomes that of the survivor of THEIR woundedness, not staying in the victim mentality.

Every situation of adultery and divorce and remarriage has the perpetrator and the victim. They each have the CHOICE of repentance, forgiveness, and restoration, and also reconciliation in some form.

For the "junked" wife and kids to hold onto their unforgiveness, judgement and pain will only affect their lives, not the one who moved on, as painful as that might be.

I've been in the ministry of inner healing and deliverance for almost 25 yrs. It's always the responsibility of the wounded to forgive.

It would be a lovely, fairytale world if nothing bad ever happened to people... more often than not, it's someone's choices that cause the woundedness.

Absolutely..We are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling..God will never accept our blame of other's wrongs for our unwillingness to obey Him ourselves..He said forgive and you will be forgiven...

I too have seen the darkness that bitterness and un-forgiveness brings into a life....how it destroys future relationships and how it is a choice...

Originally Posted by Quest

John...really? Are you actually ASKING this?

If they are trusting the Lord YES, He is absolutely leading them in the path of provision and blessing..
If they are walking in judgment, un-forgiveness and bitterness, His hands are tied..

I never said MY grace could do anything...
So now you are trying to use emotional manipulation to win a discussion you can't win scripturally?

John, what makes me sad is to realize that you don't seem to grasp the beauty and power of grace..that you seem to believe even the repentant still should be punished..you do realize that the way you judge others you will be judged? That if you believe even the repentant should still be punished, that you resent the truly free, you must believe that you should still be as well and that means you have not received your true liberty...

It's a beautiful thing to be worthy of death, yet forgiven and FREE...the one who understands he has been forgiven much...loves much...

The scriptures win the debate Quest, not you, not me. And I wasn't using an emotional argument, maybe your conscience got pricked, but it wasn't me, I promise.

Stepping down from ministry after moral failure is not "punishment", it's the right thing to do, the thing that will make you whole again, but no, not punishment.

Originally Posted by John

Well, you seem to be pretty rigid in regards to the responsibilities of the victims.


kinda loosey-goosey with the wrong doer.


not surprised.

Are you kidding me?

We each need to work through our stuff. Perpetrator and victim.

You know darn well, that as a victim, without forgiving, we stay a victim. With forgiveness we move to overcomer.

I wouldn't think that I would have to explain the basics of that to you.

Stop being such a goofus.

1 Tim 3:7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap

One could argue that since he is a Christian minister who is preaching the offensive message of the cross boldly, therefore he has a bad reputation with outsiders per default. That is not what it means. It means besides that. People persecuted Jesus to his death because of who he was, which really meant they did it for no good reason. The apostles were likewise martyred because of what they stood up for, which really meant they were persecuted for no good reason. Which means that they represented Jesus Christ and not themselves. If they had added all sorts of bad things in addition to that and gained a bad reputation with outsiders for a good reason then their testimony towards the same outsiders would not have been clear anymore. They would have represented themselves and their own faults rather than Jesus Christ and the offense of the cross.

Many Christians have a hard time separating the two. They think that the world hates us anyway, so what does it matter what they hate us for. And that way of thinking is completely unscriptural. I don't know if anyone here really is guilty of that way of thinking, I'm just discussing the mindset.

Originally Posted by A.J.

Are you kidding me?

We each need to work through our stuff. Perpetrator and victim.

You know darn well, that as a victim, without forgiving, we stay a victim. With forgiveness we move to overcomer.

I wouldn't think that I would have to explain the basics of that to you.

Stop being such a goofus.

You are assuming way too much in regards to the victims. And if it makes me "goofus" to consider them, so be it.