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  1. #241
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    A couple of years ago I was teaching at a Pentecostal Bible College and one young man in the class shared how he was still seeing his ex unsaved girlfriend. He was saved but his girlfriend was not interested in the faith but he still 'loved' her.

    He was trying to break it off and he did this for a few weeks but always went back to her and would commit fornication.
    He was guilt stricken....but it was a good sign he still had a conscience and knew he had to totally sever the relationship.

    I would pray and counsel him as he went through a period of breaking up and going back and committing fornication.

    I didn't rebuke him about eternity or hell just encouraged him to trust God and his power to deliver him.
    He was still saved but was going through a struggle of crucifying the flesh.
    Eventually he broke off the relationship.

    He had not hardened his heart, he had a conscience but because of his past sexual relationship there were strong emotions with his ex and he had to learn to trust God for his deliverance.

    This young man was not backslidden but learning to grow in faith and sanctification. These type of believers are still saved.

    He is different to my relative and some other believers who just give up and start to live like the world and lose a soft conscience and begin justifying sinful lifestyle even though they still confess Jesus as their Lord - they are real backsliders

    Some of these backsliders repent and return to real faith
    A relative of mine grew up a Christian and became a believer as a child. During his teenage years he committed various forms of sin but not necessarily with regularity. Just occasional this and that. He became a thief with more regularity, stealing money from the wallets of family members plus occasional small time shoplifting. With that his conscience became seared, in his own words. While he was still behaving like this but better than during previous years he was instrumental in motioning me towards faith. So his own faith was not shipwrecked - yet. At one point during pre-college studies he was pressed on the matter of Christianity by other students who sensed his hypocritical walk and he came out a denier. A vague denial but a social one by nature and that shipwrecked his faith. Not in his mind, he was still thinking like previously. But in his heart, the problem was that he didn't bother to repent from what he had said, it was easier to just hang with his sinful buddies and have no witness in himself. It took several years of backsliding before his walk produced that act of denial though. Not a gradual descent either, more like back and forth without true repentance. I was in bible school when that happened and at one point he wanted prayer and I cast a demon out of him and he confessed some kind of sexual perversion. I'm not sure if he came back to the faith there and then or if he was still merely thinking in line with Christianity but it didn't take long before he was seeking God, including to get out of his problems with sin and to have his conscience restored, which he eventually succeded with.

  2. #242
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Hebrews 6 is a powerful warning that should not be ignored but Christians have made it the go to verse for every person who loses their salvation when there are other warnings in the NT

    It satisfies their natural mindset to have it nice and neat in a little box that doesn't upset their pet doctrine
    There are many once BA believers that Hebrews 6 doesn't apply but other NT verses that fit like a glove which we cannot ignore or dismiss.
    I have discussed OSAS with enough zealous adherants to know that Hebrews 6 is the definite anti-osas scripture in the minds of the majority of bible oriented OSASers. It isn't necessarily the most convincing by clarity but it is by severity. The severity of it is what leads some to make an exception out of that one but of no other passages or scenarios. I believe the whole osas+reprobation doctrine grew out of that thinking, "yes we believe in osas BUT we CANNOT dismiss hebrews 6 and feel that we are remaining true to scripture". In my mind Romans 11 is clearer though it is less severe. The reason why is of course that it doesn't discuss the same phenomenon !

  3. #243
    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    Salvation is conditional IF we continue in the Faith.

    "yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach IF indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard...(Col 1:22-23).

    "by which also you are saved, IF you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain (1 Cor 15:2).

    ...God's kindness IF you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off (Rom 11:22).

    "but IF we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin (1 Jn 1:7).

    For we have become partakers of Christ, IF we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end (Heb 3: 14).

    Lets face it folks, living for the Lord takes a lifetime commitment striving to enter by the narrow gate. There are no short cuts on the path that leads to eternal glory.

    We really need to walk out our salvation faithfully until we die, or meet Him at His return. Salvation can be forfeited even if a person was truly born-again.

    How many modern day Demas's have gone back to the world? How many have deserted the faith for the love of money?

    I never hear any preachers preach Jesus became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation (Heb 5:9).

    Enduring with His help to remain faithful til the end to cross the finish line. See ya at the end of the race my brothers and sisters.
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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  5. #244
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    "if you continue in the faith" means

    "since you continue in the faith" to OSASers (I'm not making this up)

    "if there is faith against your own wishes" to some

    "if you profess faith externally" to some

    "if you think you believe" to some

    "if you don't live in sin" to some

    "if you believe and at the moment aren't sinning and have repented of previous sins" to some

    I could also mention outright legalism where it's faith + good works (in the positive sense, not merely the avoiding of sin)

  6. #245
    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    "if you continue in the faith" means
    The Father is glorified by fruitfulness. It is a distinguishing character trait of a true follower of Christ.

    "This is to My Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples (Jn 15:8).

    John 10:28 is wonderful. "Never Perish; No One Can Snatch Them Out Of My Hand".

    The promise is for the faithful, not to those who leave the faith.

    According to the context (John 10:27) the above verse only applies to the Continuous Tense followers of Jesus!

    Of coarse, it is never the way the OSAS proponents refer to it.
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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