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Thread: Ex Post Facto Factors

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    Post Ex Post Facto Factors

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    Gen 26:5 . . Abraham hearkened to My voice, and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My instructions.

    Deut 29:13-14 . . Not only with you am I making this covenant and this oath, .but with those standing here with us today before the Lord, our God, and [also] with those who are not here with us, this day.

    It's sincerely believed by some that the two statements above serve to include Abraham in the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. But the statement below seems to exclude him.

    Deut 5:2-3 . .The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. Not with our forefathers did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, we, all of whom are here alive today.

    I'm pretty sure that Abraham was excluded from the covenant. The reason I feel that way is because God promised to curse whosoever curses Abraham.

    Gen 12:3 . . I will bless those who bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse,

    The problem is: Abraham was married to his half sister (Gen 20:12)

    The covenant prohibits marrying, and/or sleeping with, one's half sister. (Lev 18:9, Lev 20:17).

    Under the terms and conditions of the covenant; men who sleep with their sisters are cursed the moment they do so because "cursed be he" is grammatically present tense; no delay and no waiting period; viz: the curse is immediate.

    Deut 27:22 . . Cursed be he who lies with his sister, his father's daughter or his mother's daughter.

    Deut 27:26 . . Cursed be he who does not uphold the words of this Torah, to fulfill them.

    Well; it seems to me that were God to slam Abraham with a curse for sleeping with his sister, then God would be obligated to slam Himself with a curse in return as per Gen 12:3.

    Gal 3:17 . .The Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God.

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    Senior Member wheeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheeze View Post
    Surely you can appreciate Abraham's advantage. He had a certain kind of immunity. In other words, seeing as how Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy were instituted after Abraham was dead; then none of the curses listed at Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69 applied to him.

    Putting that in perspective: Just imagine yourself at liberty to break all ten of the statutes listed in the Decalogue as much as you wanted and as often as you wanted; and not have to worry about getting cursed for it. I think most Catholics would really like that seeing as how Rome's plan of salvation incorporates compliance with the Decalogue.

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    Last edited by WebersHome; 05-04-2016 at 12:35 PM.

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    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    People might want to walk lightly here. Making such an accusation against Abraham might be dangerously close to cursing him and that will not go well between a man and God. And besides, the Hebrew puts this into a slightly different light. The word sister, while it can mean the daughter of your mother and father, is not consistently used or translated. It is also applied to other female relatives. In other words, it can be either a niece, an aunt or a sister. Sarah was actually Abraham's niece. http://christianopoly.org/sarah.php"]Here is a link to a short explanation. [/URL]http://christianopoly.org/sarah.php

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    People might want to walk lightly here. Making such an accusation against Abraham might be dangerously close to cursing him and that will not go well between a man and God. And besides, the Hebrew puts this into a slightly different light. The word sister, while it can mean the daughter of your mother and father, is not consistently used or translated. It is also applied to other female relatives. In other words, it can be either a niece, an aunt or a sister. Sarah was actually Abraham's niece. http://christianopoly.org/sarah.php"]Here is a link to a short explanation. [/URL]http://christianopoly.org/sarah.php
    Thanks Tom, that's interesting...the link doesn't work tho, do you have another one?

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    Gal 3:17 . .The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.

    The "promise" in question reads like this:

    "I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you, and I will aggrandize your name, and [you shall] be a blessing. And I will bless those who bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse, and all the families of the earth shall be blessed in you." (Gen 12:2-3)

    Additionally:

    "And I will give you and your seed after you the land of your sojournings, the entire land of Canaan for an everlasting possession, and I will be to them for a god." (Gen 17:8)

    The essential thing to note about the promise is that it's unconditional. In other words: its fulfillment did not depend upon Abraham's compliance with the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. And best of all, the fulfilment of the promise does not depend upon Abraham's posterity complying with the covenant.

    Bottom line: The fulfillment of the promise depends entirely upon God's integrity instead of upon human piety.

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