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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
JeffDoles
Space is a physical. The physical universe is a matter of time and space. The accounts of people having experiences in the spiritual realms -- dreams, vision, whatever -- are not about spatial distances. To suppose so mixes apples and elephants. If there is any suggestion of "travelling" in the spiritual realm, there is no reason NOT to suppose it is metaphorical, using a physical concept to describe a spiritual experience. But there is a very good reason TO suppose that it is metaphor. Spatiality is a physical concept; the spiritual realm is non-physical.
I expect here is where we get back into a feedback loop, where you say there is actual spiritual space, and me saying there isn't. So, to save time, let's just skip that.
Peace to you.
Angels, and demons have "substance" and they are spirit beings.
They have locality and mobility. They move about in the spiritual realm, seeking to influence people (with physical bodies and who can therefore interact with phys. matter.,) whom they seek to deceive.
Quantum physics aside, why wouldn't the Spiritual realm be even more substantial than the physical Universe?
Things (think about what that word means) not seen are eternal, things that are seen are temporal.
Things are distinct.
2 Corinthians 4:18
While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Methinks you have it backwards.
At what point do you stop? Or do you erase all similarities between the Spiritual and the Physical?
This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity (futility) of their mind, having the understanding darkened...
(Ephesians 4:17-18)
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly...
(Psalm 1)
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Member
Angels and demons, in their natural spiritual state do have substance, but they do not have *physical* substance. They maybe able to manifest in the physical realm and in physical forms, but their natural state is not physical but spiritual. The natural state of human beings is different. We are not just spirits who manifest in the physical realm with physical bodies. Our natural state is both spiritual and physical: we are spirit-soul-body.
As spirit-soul-body, both the spiritual and the physical realms naturally pertain to us. They are joined together in us. I am not trying to erase any similarities but OTOH I don't want to suppose any similarities that are not actually so. But I think we need to recognize that there is a fundamental difference between the spiritual and physical realms.
In your application of 2 Corinthians 4:18 to this discussion, you seem to mixing up the difference between temporal and eternal with the difference between physical and spiritual. Inasmuch as at the resurrection, our bodies will be raised up immortal and incorruptible, our bodily aspect as eternal as our spiritual aspect. And inasmuch as Christ redeems all creation and is making all things new, the physical creation also is everlasting.
The comparison Paul makes in 2 Corinthians 4:18 is between the present circumstances in which we are subject to affliction and persecution, and the eternal glory that awaits. See verse 17: "For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all."
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flower planter
Originally Posted by
JeffDoles
The body, being material, can be spoke of in spatial terms. The spirit/soul, being immaterial, cannot. It has no weight, no mass, no material dimension -- those categories pertain to what is physical...
I've been thinking about this and how do we know for sure that it doesn't? Does anyone remember this, the 21 Grams Theory where a doctor weighed patients on their deathbeds right before and right after death?
-On 10 April 1901, an unusual experiment was conducted in Dorchester, Massachusetts. Dr. Duncan MacDougall was going to prove that the human soul had mass, and was therefore, measurable.
Dr. MacDougall conducted this experiment on six dying patients who were placed on specially made Fairbanks weight scales just prior to their deaths. Dr. MacDougall’s intention was to weigh each body before and after death to determine any differences measured by the delicate scales. The patients were selected based upon their imminent death. Two patients were suffering from tuberculosis, 5 were men and one was a woman.
In the company of four other doctors, Dr. MacDougall carefully measured the weight of his first patient prior to his death. Once the patient died, an interesting event occurred...
http://www.historicmysteries.com/the...m-soul-theory/
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Senior Member
I've always assumed the soul was entirely spiritual in nature, with no physical properties. Thus, the soul would have no weight at all.
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Senior Member
Sounds like water vaporized and made the bodies lighter. One can lose a lot more than that during the night, without going to the bathroom.
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flower planter
Originally Posted by
Colonel
Sounds like water vaporized and made the bodies lighter. One can lose a lot more than that during the night, without going to the bathroom.
Did you read the article? It didn't happen overnight, it happened within a minute of death.
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Administrator
Could just be the weight of the air that left them. I know it didn't happen with dogs, but their lungs aren't as large as a person either.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
krystian
Did you read the article? It didn't happen overnight, it happened within a minute of death.
I see, they were on the scale all the time, not just weighed some time before death and then after. It should be a repeatable experiment then, has someone else gotten the same result during the 115 years that have passed ?
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Senior Member
My spirit weighs 120 kg, my body is not overweight
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