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Thread: Christians want Paul's Power but not this....

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Christians want Paul's Power but not this....

    Paul was the great apostle God used to evangelise the gentiles and write majority of the NT. He raised people from the dead. Went to heaven. Saw Jesus. Saved the multitudes
    He truly walked with God

    Christians want his power and authority but they don't want this .....

    2Co 11:23 - Are they ministers of Christ?—I speak as a fool—I am more: in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often.
    2Co 11:24 - From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one.
    2Co 11:25 - Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep;
    2Co 11:26 - in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
    2Co 11:27 - in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness—


    Why was Paul cold, naked, weary, hungry if we have been redeemed from all the curses????

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Paul was the great apostle God used to evangelise the gentiles and write majority of the NT. He raised people from the dead. Went to heaven. Saw Jesus. Saved the multitudes
    He truly walked with God

    Christians want his power and authority but they don't want this .....

    2Co 11:23 - Are they ministers of Christ?—I speak as a fool—I am more: in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often.
    2Co 11:24 - From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one.
    2Co 11:25 - Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep;
    2Co 11:26 - in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
    2Co 11:27 - in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness—


    Why was Paul cold, naked, weary, hungry if we have been redeemed from all the curses????
    Very simple, we are not guaranteed freedom from persecution.

    You conflate the two.

    Plus, Paul always went the extra mile...

    Hebrews 11:35
    ...Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:...
    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity (futility) of their mind, having the understanding darkened...
    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly...
    (Psalm 1)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Christians want Paul's Power but not this....
    Jesus Christ is who I'm called to be like... not Paul.

    Paul said he knew how to be abased and he knew how to abound... read the last part of Acts where it describes Paul living in his own rented house, preaching the gospel, no man forbidding him and you'll see how he ended up... doing just fine!

    Sure there are challenges in this life, so what? This goes with the territory... but God promises to deliver us which should be what we are focused on... not what satan is doing:



    2 Timothy 3:10-12 (Paul speaking here about his own life)
    But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
    Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
    Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.


    Psalms 34:19-22
    Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all.
    He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken.
    Evil shall slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous shall be desolate.
    The LORD redeemeth the soul of his servants: and none of them that trust in him shall be desolate.


    Romans 16:20
    And the God of peace shall bruise satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

    If we refuse to believe it's God's will for us to live victorious in this life... then there is an open door to the devil who will walk right in to one's life and slap them around because he is allowed to do so by the person.

    God will not and cannot force His will upon anybody... so, according to your faith it will be done unto you and on the flip side, what you fear will come upon you.

    Some will say this is being negative, but it's the reality of living here on Club Earth and you'll have to argue with Jesus:

    Matthew 13:24,25
    Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
    But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.


    The enemy will always be seeking to enter in to our lives with bad things and if we allow this... he will in fact succeed in causing damage to us because we are allowing it.

    Personally, I think we should rebel against hell... which is how Jesus lived.

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Galatians 3
    We are redeemed from THE curse...there were not multiple curses in that passage.
    We were redeemed for THE blessing...of Abraham. There were not multiple blessings in that passage,

    12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM." 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us-- for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE "-- 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

    What does the blessing who is JESUS consist of? Simply His Lordship which includeds His ledership and His provision

    Deuteronomy 30:19
    18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. 19 "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, 20 by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them."

    Notice Vs 9 Clearly the LORD is making a connection between financial and familial prosperity..

    9"Then the LORD your God will prosper you abundantly in all the work of your hand, in the offspring of your body and in the offspring of your cattle and in the produce of your ground, for the LORD will again rejoice over you for good, just as He rejoiced over your fathers;

    Again, THE BLESSING and THE CURSE...singular but notice..this passage goes on to describe what those look like. but notice also the very specific conditions. Loving the LORD your God, obeying HIS voice, and holding fast to HIM.

    Now let's look at Paul. We know that he loved the LORD, obeyed His voice and held fast to HIM. So there is clearly a problem with what SOME in WOF teach and believe..that the above negates any suffering in this life of loss or pain for ALL believers.

    1 Corinthians 9:22- 23

    …22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. 23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

    Also note this..Acts 9:16

    15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; 16 for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake." 17 So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."…

    Paul's calling was such that these great sufferings were embedded in his obedience. He went to dangerous places and was protected from death while also suffering great persecutions and attacks. He states he does this for OUR sake.

    We will suffer persecutions and hardships IF we follow Christ but those are not 'the curse'. We were redeemed from a life without Christ, without His salvation, His provisions, His Kingdom dwelling and service. That redemption exempts persecutions and trials FOR the KINGDOM SAKE.

    So when we are walking in obedience we should expect Jesus through the Holy Spirit to equip us and make a way for us to accomplish that task.
    That is what Jesus promised and what He demonstrated and what we see in Paul's life.

    Even when Paul was in prison he KNEW he was where God wanted him to be to labor for a season..this is a far different scenario than what many call 'suffering for Christ'.

    Paul knew what he did was a choice of service and he was often made aware of the potential suffering that was coming...His peace and assurance was relational.

    Paul's faith was relational and through a very clear knowing He was being SENT, not presumption...Paul was sold out to serve in his calling. He belonged to the LORD as a servant by choice.

    Now when it comes to sickness and disease that is very clearly stated in scripture as atoned for by Jesus' price. So to believe it's included in the above is to deny the truth of that scripture thus altering God's stated will.

    As we each come to know our calling and walk faithfully in it we will each see our own suffering and provision.

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quest

    You make some interesting points......can I ask Does the blessing of Abraham mean all believers should have great riches

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Paul's calling was such that these great sufferings were embedded in his obedience. He went to dangerous places and was protected from death while also suffering great persecutions and attacks. He states he does this for OUR sake.
    And... the Lord showed Paul the tough road he had been called to and apparently Paul agreed to it and went forth:

    Acts 9:15,16
    But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
    For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Does the blessing of Abraham mean all believers should have great riches
    Yes, if they can handle it.... otherwise God is not going to allow then to handle and big money as it will destroy a lot of Christians.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Quest

    You make some interesting points......can I ask Does the blessing of Abraham mean all believers should have great riches
    No. But some believers may gain riches without giving it all away. Riches can function as a base for producing more riches that may be channeled into every good work. If a believer becomes and stays rich, is generous, serves the Lord of all his heart and he happens to never be persecuted in a physical way then there is nothing wrong or inferior about that.

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Quest

    You make some interesting points......can I ask Does the blessing of Abraham mean all believers should have great riches
    No..He promises to prosper the works of our hands, our flocks and our children...I don't see that He gives a definitive GREAT RICHES.

    Abraham was and the lineage of Christ in order to sustain and grow that nation..

    Paul was a tentmaker and by his own account was self sufficient economically...there were times of hunger but not due to lack of personal resources, more a matter of his state of imprisonment...the time he was not in prison he carried the gospel wherever God sent him and as far as we know was self sufficient as well. His call did not afford him the time and leisure to accumulate though he could have but only through relinquishing the call...

    Not all professing Christians are wealthy because the LORD made them so. Satan is good at prospering greed to ensnare...

    So the Lord was clear that we MUST love HIM with all our heart soul, mind and strength..leave the details to HIM

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Paul was consecrated in having plenty. That is the main problem people face in relation to riches, a lack in consecration. Jesus could have walked as a rich man like Abraham, it would not have made him any less holy. It would have made his specific tasks more difficult. It would not necessarily make our tasks more difficult. If God told me he wanted me to have a billion dollars and that it would overflow with blessings for all good work then that would be no problem if I am consecrated in having plenty.

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