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Thread: Crossing the Nile

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    Frozen Chosen A.J.'s Avatar
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    Crossing the Nile

    I recently ordered some new worship flags in specific colours and design and the person I ordered from asked me if I had a name and scripture for them. I immediately heard "Crossing the Nile." Now, this confused me because we always hear about the Israelite people crossing the Red Sea.

    So, when I began to investigate, this website came up with this explanation.

    Many of you are far more scholarly than I am. I've never had any desire to dig deep into the original meaning of the words or how they've been translated, but I thought this article was fascinating.

    As a result, my new flags will be called "Crossing the Nile" and the accompanying scripture, Exodus 14:22 The Israelites went into the middle of the sea on dry land, and the waters formed a wall to them on their right hand and on their left. AMP

    The following is just the first few paragraphs, and please feel free to read the whole thing, but what do you think about this?

    Introduction

    It may come as a surprise to many students of the Bible that in the original Hebrew text the body of water the Israelites crossed when leaving Egypt is called yam suph, "Sea of Reeds," not Red Sea (Ex 15:4, 22; Dt 11:4; Jos 2:10; 4:23; 24:6; Neh 9:9; Ps 106:7, 9, 33; 136:13, 15). Unfortunately, yam suph has been rendered "Red Sea" in nearly all of our translations, the Jerusalem Bible and the New Jewish Publication Society Hebrew Bible being notable exceptions.

    The "Red Sea" phrase came into the account with the third century BC translation of the Old Testament into Greek. Called the Septuagint (abbreviated as LXX), its translators made yam suph ("Sea of Reeds") into eruthrá thálassē ("Red Sea"). The Latin Vulgate followed their lead with mari Rubro ("Red Sea") and most English versions continued that tradition.

    Unfortunately, "Red Sea" was not a translation at all, and the LXX translators understood that. While we do not know their reasoning, they gave yam suph a historicized interpretation, based on their understanding of the region at the time (Kitchen 2003: 262; Hoffmeier 1996: 206; 2005: 81). When the Bible indicated the Israelites crossed a significant body of water on Egypt's eastern border, the LXX translators connected it with the body of water they knew as the Red Sea. Instead of translating the Hebrew phrase literally, they offered this historical identification as their interpretation of the text.

    I suggest this is an unfortunate translation that has confused the issue for centuries and has kept us from appreciating the real historical accuracy of the Exodus and sea crossing accounts. In the late 20th century, scholars began to reestablish the meaning of the Hebrew text to its Egyptian context in a fresh way and then connect it with recent archaeological evidence (see Hoffmeier 2005: 81–85).

    The Red Sea

    But, you ask, what about the Red Sea? The Red Sea includes two fingers of Indian Ocean salt water that extend northward into the Biblical world and help separate the two continents of Africa and Asia. The Red Sea's eastern branch is known as the Gulf of Aqaba (Arabic) or Gulf of Elat (Hebrew), and the western branch is known as the Gulf of Suez (Arabic, and the origin of the name of the Suez Canal which connects this western branch to the Mediterranean Sea).

    In classical Greek, the name Red Sea was used for both gulfs as well as the main body of the Red Sea, the Persian Gulf and the Indian Ocean (Kitchen 2003: 262–63; Hoffmeier 1997: 200). Unfortunately, today we do not know why these bodies of water were originally called "Red Sea" (Hoffmeier 1997: 206).

    One interesting suggestion has a Biblical basis. Maybe the Red Sea received its name from the Edomites, perennial Old Testament enemies of the Israelites. The Edomites, whose name means "red" in Hebrew, controlled the Gulf of Aqaba during much of the Old Testament period. It has been suggested that later Israelites had difficulty referring to this sea by the name of their enemy (that is, the Edomite Sea), so they used the meaning of Edom ("red," Greek eruthrá) instead to identify it (Hoffmeier 1997: 206).

    Another possibility is that the Gulf of Suez was already known as the Red Sea (for a presently unknown reason), and its application to the Gulf of Aqaba was a natural extension (Hoffmeier 1997: 206). Whatever the origin of the term, it was not the name of the body of water the Bible says the Israelites crossed in the Exodus.

    To complicate matters more, the New Testament follows the LXX in referring to the location of the Exodus sea crossing as the "Red Sea." While a full treatment of the New Testament references is beyond the scope of this article, I will suggest that our understanding of ancient Egypt's eastern frontier and the terminologies describing it are still incomplete and that the present state of our research is like working a puzzle with a number of key pieces still missing

    New Evidence from Egypt on the Location of the Exodus Sea Crossing: Part I - Associates for Biblical Research

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    Senior Member Highly Favoured's Avatar
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    It's an interesting article, A.J. I can't weigh in on it one way or the other, though.

    There are so many ideas about where the Israelites may have crossed over after leaving Egypt. I like the idea of a Red Sea crossing only because the magnificence of God triumphing over natural things is so wonderful. It's like the story of when they crossed the Jordan, and the one where the sun stood still.

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    You have piqued my curiosity and I want to look into this more. I haven't done any research into this so am interested what scholars will say

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    Frozen Chosen A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    You have piqued my curiosity and I want to look into this more. I haven't done any research into this so am interested what scholars will say
    The article itself has many references and goes into much more detail than the little bit I posted.
    "Sea of Reeds" is much different than "Red Sea."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    You have piqued my curiosity and I want to look into this more. I haven't done any research into this so am interested what scholars will say
    Ditto!

    Did a quick search and found this so far, but I'm going to watch this thread for more answers.

    Did the Israelites in the book of Exodus cross the Red Sea or the Reed Sea? | GotQuestions.org

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    From my readings there is some differing analysis of where Moses crossed.
    The evangelicals differ to the liberals and academics in regard to the actual place and interpretation of reed/red sea.

    I did think that after 3500 years that maybe the geography has changed and one article mentioned similar.
    Its possible that there was an area comprised of reeds that then lead to deeper waters.

    Obviously where the scripture is clear we must accept that but we will never fully know until we speak to Moses

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    Frozen Chosen A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    From my readings there is some differing analysis of where Moses crossed.
    The evangelicals differ to the liberals and academics in regard to the actual place and interpretation of reed/red sea.

    I did think that after 3500 years that maybe the geography has changed and one article mentioned similar.
    Its possible that there was an area comprised of reeds that then lead to deeper waters.

    Obviously where the scripture is clear we must accept that but we will never fully know until we speak to Moses
    I definitely agree. Even the article I posted, it seemed like there was a lot of speculation. I am, however, keeping the name of the flags to "Crossing the Nile."

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    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    In keeping with the idea that Yam Suf could be a reference to the Nile I wonder if the time of year when the Nile is in flood stage if might have had the nickname of a reed sea. I don't remember ever seeing that in historical records though so that is just speculation. It seems like the land of Goshen was within the flood plain of the Nile and that there were at least two ancient lakes within that area. It does seem clear that the original writings referred to something other than what we call the Red Sea today.

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