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Thread: Why so few miracles?

  1. #41
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    Here's my two cents: Everyone has to be careful of their calling. Find it and focus on it through the leading and power of the Holy Spirit. Do not let distractions--especially GOOD distractions keep you from your true calling. I know my calling is as a writer. My books, praise God, have blessed many. At age 75 next month, I'm only too aware that my time on Earth is limited. You would not believe the number of GOOD distractions that present themselves to me, urging me to take them on and put my writing as less of a priority. Right now I'm having to let go of one more good distraction that keeps my writing from my number one priority. Street ministry is great and I'm glad many are called to it, but for me it would take me away from the one area where I'm being effective for the Lord. My advice for young Christians is find out where God wants to use you and go there, stay there, and learn to be fruitful in that calling. Stay away from all distractions--even good ones. The good is the enemy of the best.
    You just answered your own question brother. We are all called to make disciples, first and foremost. That is supposed to be the main focus of the church. Making disciples isn't a "good distraction", it is what Jesus commanded us to do. The parable of the talents makes this pretty clear. Every follower of Jesus has been given at least the 1 talent. With no disciples to show for that 1 talent we will hear the words; "Depart from Me, you wicked and lazy servant!" And that very thought should give each and every one of us a healthy fear of the Lord.

    The writer of Hebrews tells us that we should be teachers of the elementary principles of Christ, able to teach the basics:
    "the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."
    That right there is the gospel message, and every disciple of Jesus is supposed to be able to communicate these basics to unbelievers.

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  3. #42
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    I don't think I was saying that. I'm saying go where God has called you and be faithful there. I do still maintain there would be MORE miracles if the church would wean herself of the world. Sin (worldliness) gives doubt a foot in the door. Sin undermines faith. Holiness builds faith...and I think it also increases the opportunities for miracles.
    But you will never see the miracles if you never purpose in your heart to preach the gospel, heal the sick and cast out devils.

  4. #43
    You just answered your own question brother. We are all called to make disciples, first and foremost. That is supposed to be the main focus of the church. Making disciples isn't a "good distraction", it is what Jesus commanded us to do. The parable of the talents makes this pretty clear. Every follower of Jesus has been given at least the 1 talent.
    I agree. My talent--and my making of disciples--is primarily through the books I write and the teaching I do in our congregation. My book on addiction is reaching thousands. That's way more than I could reach on the streets. I'm not saying I wouldn't do street ministry, it's just that that's not my "one talent." It's like me insisting that unless you're writing a book you're not being used by God. That would be ridiculous. We each have our own way of service to the Lord and while we can be open to change and to being used in areas outside our comfort zone, we're most effective when we find our calling and abide in it, not envying someone else's place of ministry or imagining that they're more effective in their ministry. There's a reason why Paul listed the various gifts in the body and warned against one member considering another member less important. It's also the reason for the ministry callings in Ephesians four. We're not all called to be primarily pastors, teachers, apostles, prophets, and evangelists.

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  6. #44
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    You mentioned the ministry gifts in Ephesians 4. But why did Paul say that these gifts were given to the body? "For the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry".

    The answer to your question is spelled out clearly in Mark 16:15-20. In red letters (Jesus' words), He says "THESE SIGNS WILL FOLLOW THOSE WHO BELIEVE". Then, in verse 20 is your answer: "Then they went forth and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the ACCOMPANYING SIGNS." Amen.

    No preaching=no accompanying signs.

    This is reinforced in Acts chapter 4.

    The problem is that the "Church" is filled with non-believing believers. Jesus said "These signs WILL follow those who believe".

    When I was in the army, I was trained to be a support level missile guidance technician. But first, I was trained as a soldier. How to use various weapons, dig foxholes, set up perimeter defense, etc.

    You are an author. Your gift is a blessing to the church. However, first and foremost you are supposed to be trained as a soldier for Christ. Every disciple of Jesus is called to know the basics well enough to explain/teach them to a lost person. Whatever else we do for the kingdom of God is above and beyond that primary calling.

    Your gift/ministry as an author is no less important than other gifts to the body.
    But your most important mission, straight from the mouth of the Lord Jesus Christ is "As you go, preach the kingdom of heaven. Heal the sick, cast out demons, preach the gospel."

    That means as you go buy groceries/gas/dinner/etc.

    You like books. You should read The Call of Jesus by Torben Sondergaard. Great stuff.

    Great discussion brother!


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  8. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    You're addressing stuff that wasn't said. Nobody said holiness wasn't essential. It's just not essential for 'miracles'. You need to study the healing move ofo the 50s. There is a book out called 'All Things Are Possible' which I got as a textbook at Rhema in '79. The guy could have even been more harsh about the lives of some of the healing ministers. They gave us that book so we could see that and not follow in their footsteps as far as lifestyle.

    Holiness is protection from the enemy (the prince of this world has come and found nothing in me) when walking in power. You continue in sin while walking in that kind of power, then eventually the devil will pretty much destroy your ministry and maybe you. That book showed that.

    It's interesting you brought up the Corinthian church to support what you're saying about holiness (and I agree) but in light of miracles you just proved my point. Corinthians was the most carnal church he dealt with. Yet at the same time they proliferated in the gifts. The most immature church as he called them proliferating in the gifts. So the church that was so carnal he had to address it, also operated more in the gifts more than any other church and he had to address them about order concerning it. Go figure.
    I read that book back in the 80s (or "90s" - can't remember now ). A very sobering book. God continued to work through some very flawed men. Made me realize that if I don't learn to walk in the Spirit and resist the dictates of my flesh it could easily happen to me.
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  10. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    I read that book back in the 80s (or "90s" - can't remember now ). A very sobering book. God continued to work through some very flawed men. Made me realize that if I don't learn to walk in the Spirit and resist the dictates of my flesh it could easily happen to me.
    We could go back to Samson. He was breaking the law of God and yet the "anointing" would still rest on him from time to time...until Samson one day realized the Lord wasn't with him. More contemporary to our day, we have the Jimmies both involved in sexual sin (against their own bodies, their own wives and especially God) yet people were getting blessed and even saved. We can see that it really wasn't about them but about the Lord God and the Kingdom. The anointing of God is easier to lose than get it back again.

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  12. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by FireBrand View Post
    We could go back to Samson. He was breaking the law of God and yet the "anointing" would still rest on him from time to time...until Samson one day realized the Lord wasn't with him. More contemporary to our day, we have the Jimmies both involved in sexual sin (against their own bodies, their own wives and especially God) yet people were getting blessed and even saved. We can see that it really wasn't about them but about the Lord God and the Kingdom. The anointing of God is easier to lose than get it back again.
    Good points. Samson is definitely the Biblical model for how God can still work through a messed up person.
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  14. #48
    Senior Member Valiant Woman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    Holiness is essential to the Christian life. It's not an add-on. Without holiness, no man shall see God (Hebrews 12:14). Was Paul pleased with the carnality of the Corinthian church? No, he was not. Sin was called out. Sanctification was called for. To say a person can be used of God while sinful or worldly is hardly a recommendation for it. I'm not suggesting faith isn't also key to healing, but I've found that sin and worldliness tend to undermine faith. Holiness, on the other hand, enhances faith.
    But didn't Paul say that they didn't fall behind in any of the gifts? Yet they were carnal. I agree that though holiness is very important, it is faith that unlocks the power. When Jesus healed folk, He said it was their faith that made them whole, not their holiness because some of them were not holy.
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  16. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    You're addressing stuff that wasn't said. Nobody said holiness wasn't essential. It's just not essential for 'miracles'. You need to study the healing move ofo the 50s. There is a book out called 'All Things Are Possible' which I got as a textbook at Rhema in '79. The guy could have even been more harsh about the lives of some of the healing ministers. They gave us that book so we could see that and not follow in their footsteps as far as lifestyle.

    Holiness is protection from the enemy (the prince of this world has come and found nothing in me) when walking in power. You continue in sin while walking in that kind of power, then eventually the devil will pretty much destroy your ministry and maybe you. That book showed that.

    It's interesting you brought up the Corinthian church to support what you're saying about holiness (and I agree) but in light of miracles you just proved my point. Corinthians was the most carnal church he dealt with. Yet at the same time they proliferated in the gifts. The most immature church as he called them proliferating in the gifts. So the church that was so carnal he had to address it, also operated more in the gifts more than any other church and he had to address them about order concerning it. Go figure.
    Right on! I saw this after I made my post.
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  18. #50
    Senior Member Valiant Woman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    I read that book back in the 80s (or "90s" - can't remember now ). A very sobering book. God continued to work through some very flawed men. Made me realize that if I don't learn to walk in the Spirit and resist the dictates of my flesh it could easily happen to me.
    I'd like to read that book. Is it similar to God's Generals?
    When your praise match your prayers, the answer will come.
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