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Thread: Is Tithing a New Testament Command? Michael Brown

  1. #21
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Yeah, tithe if you want to. What many who do tithe don't understand is that they are not being blessed because they tithe, but are enjoying the fruit of what Paul did teach- The law of sowing and reaping. The Lord loves a cheerful giver. I don't think He is too happy about the attitude that some have of looking down their nose at those who don't tithe. I have nothing against someone who pays their tithe. I also have nothing against someone who practices NT giving. Let each be convinced in their heart and conscience.

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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Let me add this: One thing I do take issue with, (And I am sure the Lord does also), is preachers who beat the sheep with Malachi because they ignore the context.

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  5. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    Yeah, tithe if you want to. What many who do tithe don't understand is that they are not being blessed because they tithe, but are enjoying the fruit of what Paul did teach- The law of sowing and reaping. The Lord loves a cheerful giver. I don't think He is too happy about the attitude that some have of looking down their nose at those who don't tithe. I have nothing against someone who pays their tithe. I also have nothing against someone who practices NT giving. Let each be convinced in their heart and conscience.
    So why then did you assert that People who were tithers should stop listening to Teachers who have led them astray?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    Y'all need to start studying your bibles and stop listening to teachers who have led you astray................
    Was the above not you ?

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  7. #24
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    Yeah, tithe if you want to. What many who do tithe don't understand is that they are not being blessed because they tithe, but are enjoying the fruit of what Paul did teach- The law of sowing and reaping. The Lord loves a cheerful giver. I don't think He is too happy about the attitude that some have of looking down their nose at those who don't tithe. I have nothing against someone who pays their tithe. I also have nothing against someone who practices NT giving. Let each be convinced in their heart and conscience.
    Well that's the point. Nobody should be condemning anybody for how they give. There is no command and there is no curse if you don't, and a special blessing associated with it if you do. And Paul said don't do it under compulsion which is how many do today under the pressure of the minster, especiallywhen the minister is talking about tithing. And I'm not sure what BAP got it is for 'mature' Christians. There is NO scripture to support that at all. A mature Christian gives like the Spirit leads them to give, and it's not the same for everybody. "It seemed good to us and the Holy Ghost." We'd all be better off if that's how we did things.

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  9. #25
    https://digitalcommons.georgefox.edu...ext=wes_theses

    The Law of the Nations
    Tithing was practiced by the nations of antiquity that
    knew nothing about the Law of Moses. These nations included such
    notable cultures as the Egyptians, Babylonians, Persians, Phoenicians, Arabians, Greeks and Romans. Arthur V. Babbs adopts the
    statement of Monacutius when he said,
    Instances are mentioned in history of
    some nations who did not offer sacrifices; but in the annals of all times
    none are found who did not pay tithes.

    2
    Babbs commenting on the universality of tithing summarized his
    findings as follows.
    l
    We have discovered that the idea of
    the tithe covered all of the ancient
    world, from the extremes of Western Europe
    to the limits of the Farther East. The
    ancients, even those not Hebrew by birth,
    had the idea that to neglect the tithe
    would bring disaster from God.

    The universality of the practice of tithing argues that there was and is deep in the
    consciousness of man a sense of obligation. Since this feeling of deep obligation to God was so wide-spread and at
    the same time so ancient, it follows
    that in the morning time of the world,
    God, by a revelation of His will, had
    promulgated and enforced the law of the
    tithe for all the sons of men; ••• l

  10. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Well that's the point. Nobody should be condemning anybody for how they give. There is no command and there is no curse if you don't, and a special blessing associated with it if you do. And Paul said don't do it under compulsion which is how many do today under the pressure of the minster, especiallywhen the minister is talking about tithing. And I'm not sure what BAP got it is for 'mature' Christians. There is NO scripture to support that at all. A mature Christian gives like the Spirit leads them to give, and it's not the same for everybody. "It seemed good to us and the Holy Ghost." We'd all be better off if that's how we did things.
    Here is where I got it from..

    Hebrews 5
    5 In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him,

    "You are my Son;
    today I have become your Father."[a]

    6 And he says in another place,

    "You are a priest forever,
    in the order of Melchizedek."[b]

    7 During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

    11 We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand. 12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
    The whole Melchizedek, Priestly Ministry/Tithe thingy that continues on to Hebrews 7 is for the Mature ...

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  12. #27
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Here is where I got it from..

    Hebrews 5


    The whole Melchizedek, Priestly Ministry/Tithe thingy that continues on to Hebrews 7 is for the Mature ...
    You stopped too soon brother. Remember, this was a letter. There were no chapter and verse divisions when it was written. The writer explains exactly what he was talking about as being milk/ the basic elements of our faith.

    Hebrews 6
    New King James Version
    The Peril of Not Progressing

    6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to [a]perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this [b]we will do if God permits.




    It is also important to remember that this epistle was written to the Jewish believers who had been scattered, and so it was written in the Jewish mindset in order to help them understand it better. Your average Gentile believer would have known nothing of the OT scriptures or have any idea who Melchizedek even was.

    If you study Paul's teachings on giving you find not a single word where he taught tithing to the NT church. Considering that he was formerly a pharisee of all pharisees, that should speak volumes to the doctrine we are discussing. You also will find no mention of any of the believers in the book of Acts tithing, which would have surely been mentioned if it were a practice among the NT believers.

    As always, this is an interesting and passionate discussion every time we have had it over the past 20 years!





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  14. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    You stopped too soon brother. Remember, this was a letter. There were no chapter and verse divisions when it was written. The writer explains exactly what he was talking about as being milk/ the basic elements of our faith.

    Hebrews 6
    New King James Version
    The Peril of Not Progressing

    6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to [a]perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this [b]we will do if God permits.




    It is also important to remember that this epistle was written to the Jewish believers who had been scattered, and so it was written in the Jewish mindset in order to help them understand it better. Your average Gentile believer would have known nothing of the OT scriptures or have any idea who Melchizedek even was.

    If you study Paul's teachings on giving you find not a single word where he taught tithing to the NT church. Considering that he was formerly a pharisee of all pharisees, that should speak volumes to the doctrine we are discussing. You also will find no mention of any of the believers in the book of Acts tithing, which would have surely been mentioned if it were a practice among the NT believers.

    As always, this is an interesting and passionate discussion every time we have had it over the past 20 years!


    Fair Point but ultimately remember that the Holy Ghost is the author of the scriptures . (The letter killeth but the Spirit Gives Life) So logical Deductions about Paul's writings to specific NT churches in order to address specific issues while not irrelevant are not all there is to the matter at hand.

    Paul may have been writing to specific early churches but the Holy Ghost was speaking to Generations down the line. Which would include US . In essence we learn by BIBLICAL REVELATION which may or may not include specific direct instructions

    I would encourage you to read from the book at the following link which I posted earlier . Its titled "A study of the biblical basis for tithing"
    https://digitalcommons.georgefox.edu...ext=wes_theses

    I will post a few excerpts from the book below . .. The formatting is bad but do bear with me
    In the Old Testament the priests and Levites who ministered
    in the temple received tithes from the people. After referring
    to this custom Paul reminded the Corinthians that the Lord had
    1II Corinthians 8:1-7.
    2II Corinthians 9:7.37
    ordained that those who preach the gospel should live of the gos1 pel. This necessitated some type of support from the Christians.

    Paul drew a parallel between the Levites and those who preached
    the gospel. The inference of his statement was that the Levites
    had received tithes and that the Christian minis·try should be
    supported in a similar manner.

    Paul with his Jewish background and zealous activities as
    a Pharisee was undoubtedly familiar with tithing. His silence
    on the subject does not indicate its unimportance to him. His
    teachings on giving and sacrifice witness to a philosophy of
    giving which suggests a standard equal to the tithe he knew as
    an ardent young Jew.


    The Epistle to the Hebrews
    The account of Abram paying a tithe to Melchizedek the
    priest occurs in the book of Genesis and was discussed in chapter two of this thesis.
    The writer of Hebrews brings the account
    to a further point of discussion. The early chapters of Hebrews
    show Jesus to be greater than the angels, and greater than the
    great Jewish leader Moses. 2 Jesus was made a high priest forever
    after the order of Melchizedek. The writer points out that Christ
    was greater than the Levitical priesthood. The existence of a
    priesthood outside the ranks of the Levitical priesthood is perhaps the main theme of chapters six and seven.
    1 r Corinthians 9:13, 14.
    2 Hebrews 1:2-14; 3:1-3.
    Melchizedek received tithes from Abraham and the incident
    is described as follows.
    For this Melchizedek who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the
    kings and blessed him, to whom also Abraham divided a tenth part of all (being
    first, by interpretation, King of righteousness, and then also King of Salem •••
    without father, without mother, without
    genealogy, having neither beginning of
    days nor end of life, but made like unto the Son of God), abideth a priest
    continuaU.J;y.

    Now consider how great this man was,
    unto whom Abraham, the patriarch, gave a
    tenth out of the chief spoils. And they
    indeed of the sons of Levi that receive
    the priest's office have commandment to
    take tithes o1' the people according to
    the law, that is, of their brethren,
    though these have come out of the loins
    of Abraham: but he whose genealogy is
    not counted from them hath taken tithes
    of Abraham, and hath blessed him that
    hath the promises. But without any dispute the less is blessed of the better.
    And here men that die receive tithes; but
    there on~ of whom it is witnessed that he
    liveth. And, so to say, through Abraham
    even Levi, who receiveth tithes, hath
    paid tithes; for he was yet in the loins
    of his father, when Melchizedek met him. 1

    The primary emphasis in this passage is the relative superiority
    of Christ over Levi and Melchizedek. The way in which this superiority
    was expressed was through the tithe. Even the Levites
    who received tithes were in the loins of Abraham when he paid the
    tithe, and therefore may be said to have paid tithes to Melchizedek.
    The men of the Levitical priesthood who received tithes were
    men who died; such was not the case with Melchizedek or Christ.
    1Hebrews 7:1-10.
    39
    All those who worshipped Jehovah in the Old Testament were to
    tithe. Even the Levites tithed the tithes they received as their
    income. Those to whom the letter of the Hebrews was addressed
    worshipped Jesus Christ, a pr~est of a higher order. A logical
    inference is that worshippers of Christ should render an acknowledgment
    of God's ownership in as great measure as did Abraham,
    Jacob and the Israelites.

    Tithing was begun before the Mosiac Law ever came into
    existence. It was later incorporated into the law and elaborated
    upon. Whether or not the practice of tithing belongs to the period of the Law or that of faith has been answered by Dr. D. Shelby Corlett, a Nazarene author, as follows:
    Tithing belongs to the realm of faith

    Abraham, "the father of all them that believe" (Rom. 4:11) paid tithes to Melchizedek,
    the priest of the Most High God over
    four hundred years before the law was given
    by Moses. The law gave explicit command
    for the observance of the practice of tithing in Israel,
    for by law they were required to do what Abraham did by faith
    four hundred years before; and they that
    received'the law paid tithes in Abram,
    (Heb. 7:5-9). The Christians are children
    of Abraham, "They which are of faith, the
    same are the children of Abraham ••• So then
    they which be of faith are blessed with
    faithful Abraham" (GaL 3:7, 9). 1

  15. #29
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Good reading there in Hebrews, but it is not teaching tithing to the church, anyway you slice it.

    If we start with OT scripture when deciding what is doctrine for the NT church, we end up in error. You end up with things like 7th Day Adventist teachings about keeping the Sabbath. You also end up with those who kept trying to put the yoke of Jewish law (circumcision) around the necks of NT churches.

    It was because of this that the Jerusalem council gathered together to listen to Paul and Barnabas and came up with their list of necessary things for the NT church to observe. Notice that tithing was not on that list. The way it is pushed by many today, it surely should have been.

    And did you watch the video I posted, where they were actually reading what the Jews were commanded to do with their tithes? Very interesting!



    When we look at the teachings and lives of Jesus and the apostles, and examine their instructions to the 1st Century churches (and to us) and then back it up with applicable OT scriptures we end up with sound doctrine.

    Great discussion, once again.

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  17. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    Good reading there in Hebrews, but it is not teaching tithing to the church, anyway you slice it.

    If we start with OT scripture when deciding what is doctrine for the NT church, we end up in error. You end up with things like 7th Day Adventist teachings about keeping the Sabbath. You also end up with those who kept trying to put the yoke of Jewish law (circumcision) around the necks of NT churches.

    It was because of this that the Jerusalem council gathered together to listen to Paul and Barnabas and came up with their list of necessary things for the NT church to observe. Notice that tithing was not on that list. The way it is pushed by many today, it surely should have been.

    And did you watch the video I posted, where they were actually reading what the Jews were commanded to do with their tithes? Very interesting!



    When we look at the teachings and lives of Jesus and the apostles, and examine their instructions to the 1st Century churches (and to us) and then back it up with applicable OT scriptures we end up with sound doctrine.

    Great discussion, once again.

    Lol , there are a million and one things that the Jerusalem Council didn't address. They were pretty specific in their deliberations and conclusions. Nonetheless you still continue to argue against the tithe based on the inaccurate premise that it Originated with the Law of Moses when I have shown repeatedly that it it was only incorporated into Mosaic law and has existed from the beginning of time .

    The NT scriptures are clear about the abrogation or rather the alteration of the Jewish fulfillments of the sabbath and circumcision in the NT . Question is where in the NT is the tithe abrogated ?

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