Ok, I am embarrassed to admit...

[Quest]

I did not know Catholics teach that Cornelius Spirit was an exception to the rule.

Ok, my first knee jerk response is Wait! God literally filled unsaved people before they were saved in baptism? How does that even begin to make sense?

Yes I am embarrassed to admit in all my studies I had never heard this...and apparently both Oneness Pentecostals and Catholics teach this?

[A.J.]

I'm not sure what you mean? I was filled/baptized in the Holy Spirit before I was baptized in water. Saved, then filled, then full immersion baptized.

I understand "unsaved" but "unsaved in Baptism"? Are you saying a person isn't really saved until they're water baptized?

[Quest]

I'm not sure what you mean? I was filled/baptized in the Holy Spirit before I was baptized in water. Saved, then filled, then full immersion baptized.

I understand "unsaved" but "unsaved in Baptism"? Are you saying a person isn't really saved until they're water baptized?

Apparently Catholicism teaches God made an exception of Cornelius in order to demonstrate salvation was for Gentiles...My jaw dropped when a poster said that and as I researched I found an actual article that stated Exceptional cases make bad doctrines...essentially it was an exception and one is not saved until baptized. Exceptional Cases Make Bad Doctrine | Catholic Answers

[A.J.]

Apparently Catholicism teaches God made an exception of Cornelius in order to demonstrate salvation was for Gentiles...My jaw dropped when a poster said that and as I researched I found an actual article that stated Exceptional cases make bad doctrines...essentially it was an exception and one is not saved until baptized. Exceptional Cases Make Bad Doctrine | Catholic Answers

Ohhhhh ... I see ... Thank you. I've obviously never heard that one, either. Hopefully someone here, smarter than me, can have a conversation with you about it.

[Quest]

Here is another....Skip down to point # 3-i "The Spirit did not come to make him a child of God. That is done at water baptism."

When Was Cornelius Saved?

[Smitty]

"The Spirit did not come to make him a child of God. That is done at water baptism."

Not sure what is being said here Quest, but much of Catholic doctrine is false teaching.
Water baptism does not save. Is baptism necessary for salvation? | GotQuestions.org

The new birth, or being born-again is what saves. What is the new birth? | GotQuestions.org

This is why Paul wrote in Romans 8:8, "But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Salvation occurs when we receive Christ (Jn 1:12) and thus this is when we become partakers of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) the impartation of the Spirit of Christ, also known as the new creation (2 Cor 2:17).

I'm not sure if this is what you were looking for in response to your OP. But I would reject Catholic teaching that is contrary to what I've posted.

[Quest]

Not sure what is being said here Quest, but much of Catholic doctrine is false teaching.
Water baptism does not save. Is baptism necessary for salvation? | GotQuestions.org

The new birth, or being born-again is what saves. What is the new birth? | GotQuestions.org

This is why Paul wrote in Romans 8:8, "But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Salvation occurs when we receive Christ (Jn 1:12) and thus this is when we become partakers of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) the impartation of the Spirit of Christ, also known as the new creation (2 Cor 2:17).

I'm not sure if this is what you were looking for in response to your OP. But I would reject Catholic teaching that is contrary to what I've posted.

So, The teaching is that the event with Cornelius was an exception to the rule. That he and his household received the Spirit but were not actually born again until they were baptized in water, and that this was a singular event, an exception to the rule that one does not receive the Spirit UNTIL water baptized.

Not just Catholics teach this apparently.

To me this seems to violate good hermeneutics. I find it absurd to say God only filled people with His Spirit once in history before water baptism but did not regenerate them until they were baptized OR that He regenerated them before baptism but no one else since because that contradicted scripture. Hmm, think I just found the answer. this concept says God violated His own word, the plan of redemption, sovereignly.

This seems to be a violation of His character....that He would establish the plan of salvation, then make an exception sovereignly? Was just wanting others to weigh in on why this cannot be true. Or if they believe it, why?

[Smitty]

So, The teaching is that the event with Cornelius was an exception to the rule. That he and his household received the Spirit but were not actually born again until they were baptized in water, and that this was a singular event, an exception to the rule that one does not receive the Spirit UNTIL water baptized.

Not just Catholics teach this apparently.

To me this seems to violate good hermeneutics. I find it absurd to say God only filled people with His Spirit once in history before water baptism but did not regenerate them until they were baptized OR that He regenerated them before baptism but no one else since because that contradicted scripture. Hmm, think I just found the answer. this concept says God violated His own word, the plan of redemption, sovereignly.

This seems to be a violation of His character....that He would establish the plan of salvation, then make an exception sovereignly? Was just wanting others to weigh in on why this cannot be true. Or if they believe it, why?

Exception to the rule sounds like false teaching to me.

In Acts 10 Corneluis welcomes Peter into his home and says, "We are all here" ((Acts 10:33). Corneluis entire household was gathered to hear everything that Peter would preach. All of them heard the gospel and all of them responded. Everyone in Corneluis's household believed ( Acts 11:14) and got saved. Baptism would follow, not the other way around (they were not baptized until after Peter first preached the gospel to them as they responded to it accordingly). Besides, it seems to indicate the household of Corneluis was not saved because Corneluis believed, but because they believed individually for themselves.

The same is true when salvation came to the jailers household as the result of their hearing the word of God individually and responding in faith to it. Paul and Silas "spoke the word of the Lord to him (jailer) and to the others in his house (Acts 16:32). The whole family heard the gospel. They were all saved, but their salvation was not due to their being a part of the jailers household, they were saved because they believed the gospel for themselves.

This corresponds to what Jesus said in John 6:37, "All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out."

Yet, no one can come to Me unless the Father who sent who sent Me draws him (John 6:44).

Corneluis and his household, the jailer and his household all received salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ because they were drawn by the Father individually to Jesus through the preaching of Peter, Paul, and Silas. As you can clearly see, water baptism has nothing to do with individual salvation. The gift of the Holy Spirit or being filled with the Spirit is a separate occurrence then regeneration, or new creation which is the work of the Holy Spirit at the initial point of salvation (Acts 19:1-6).

So, as I understand it, "exception to the rule" is a man made rule, and is unscriptural.

[fuego]

I was baptized in the Holy Spirit before I was baptized in water.

[Smitty]

I was baptized in the Holy Spirit before I was baptized in water.

I was saved first and was baptized about a month later in the early 70's at Faith Temple baptismal tank in the front of the sanctuary. This was a Jesus movement church in North Seattle. Alot of the Jesus hippies that were instrumental in leading me to Christ discipled me in that church. It wasn't until a couple years later that I was baptized in the Holy Ghost at a prayer meeting. Much pleasant memories of those early times in my young Christian life.