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Thread: Did God know that Billions would go to Hell?

  1. #121
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    I believe when we formulate an either or we set ourselves up for a forced conclusion. I believe Calvinism did the same thing...We have to be willing to accept passages that seem to disagree and realize they are pointing to something outside of our realm of reason...IMHO

    I guess I would have to read through to discover why there is a problem with Eternal NOW and the other options but I do get that one thing is certain...it's beyond our ability to comprehend apart from revelation of Holy Spirit..
    I take eternal now to mean that God exists within one moment and that he experiences no development, nothing changing. That is just another way of constraining God. If everything is contained within God as Acts 17:28 says then God is both outside and inside time but time is never outside as in enclosing him. He can operate and interact inside time and also outside time and at that outside there may be anything, including a different time that humans do not relate to.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    I believe when we formulate an either or we set ourselves up for a forced conclusion. I believe Calvinism did the same thing...We have to be willing to accept passages that seem to disagree and realize they are pointing to something outside of our realm of reason...IMHO

    I guess I would have to read through to discover why there is a problem with Eternal NOW and the other options but I do get that one thing is certain...it's beyond our ability to comprehend apart from revelation of Holy Spirit..
    The Holy Spirit searches all things including the deep things of God but it may not all fit into our human minds. Some of it may only be approachable at the heart level.

  3. #123
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    I take eternal now to mean that God exists within one moment and that he experiences no development, nothing changing. That is just another way of constraining God. If everything is contained within God as Acts 17:28 says then God is both outside and inside time but time is never outside as in enclosing him. He can operate and interact inside time and also outside time and at that outside there may be anything, including a different time that humans do not relate to.
    Or no time..:) Can't TIME just be a mindset of creation that sets limitations and the sun and moon and stars temporarily regulate? Isn't it possible that we simply cannot comprehend the concept of 'no time'...no limitation

  4. #124
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    God is said to be a living God and life requires motion per definition. God is limitless, he can create an infinite number of dimensions and operate there if he chooses, he basically created four for us to operate in and he interacts with us here. Maybe he thinks that makes sense for a creature that doesnt possess his attributes of omnipotence, omnipresence etc. The angels he sends here from wherever else they are found seem to interact with ease as well.

  5. #125
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    The Holy Spirit searches all things including the deep things of God but it may not all fit into our human minds. Some of it may only be approachable at the heart level.
    Revelation is the voice to what is revealed from the inner man...I believe

  6. #126
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    God is said to be a living God and life requires motion per definition. Agree God is limitless, he can create an infinite number of dimensions and operate there if he chooses,agree he basically created four for us to operate in and he interacts with us here.agree Maybe he thinks that makes sense for a creature that doesnt possess his attributes of omnipotence, omnipresence etc. The angels he sends here from wherever else they are found seem to interact with ease as well.
    It will be wonderful when we see all things clearly won't it?

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    It will be wonderful when we see all things clearly won't it?
    When the unforgettable fire rules every atom of our existence and everything is a song. Then poetic champions will compose without cease for eternity because the unforgettable fire will be ever new. In the meantime we are commissioned to forget about the forgettable and only receive and relate the real fire with more and more depth.

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  9. #128
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    David talks about how he was formed in his mother's womb (quotes from the NKJV) :

    Psalm 139:13 For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother's womb.
    14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well.
    15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
    16a Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.

    All his days were written in God's book before a single one had arrived :

    16b And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them.

    Still he asks God to lead him in the right direction. God has foreknowledge but that doesn't mean that the future is set in stone apart from David's own decisions :

    23 Search me, O God, and know my heart; Try me, and know my anxieties;
    24 And see if there is any wicked way in me, And lead me in the way everlasting.

  10. #129
    When we make things we never start with exactly what we need, there are bits left over such as a spoonful of mashed potato or a couple of peas or gravy that we can’t scrape from the pan; they get chucked, but that’s OK.

    It works the same way on a house too; we had to dig out the land to get a level spot for the house and the dirt and rock was dumped. A concrete slab was poured and any excess cement chucked. Bits of timber were cut off to make the frame the right size, there were leftover bricks and roof tiles (actually these are still behind the shed 22 years later), the wiring was pulled through and bits cut off when the switches and lights were fitted, copper pipes were cut to size … we built a house and to do so needed lots of “stuff” but some of that stuff we had to have to start with but it didn’t go into the house so in the end it was all basically chucked.

    The leg of my dining room chair is fancy. A tree grew; leaves (or whatever) dropped; it was cut down the roots left behind; the branches were removed; the bark was removed; the timber is sawn …. eventually we have a piece of wood maybe 60mm square that put in a lathe and bits cut off to turn it into a cylinder shape and then “made fancy”, but at each step getting rid of what we don’t want so that we end up with what we want, what we planned to have in the first place. But we couldn’t just have that finished, turned chair leg, we needed a tree with roots and branches that took time and water and sunlight to grow which had to go through various processes and the unwanted bits disposed of so that we ended up with what we wanted.

    We can do that. I’ve lived in maybe 16 different places and though we only built one someone chose how each would be built, in a way that satisfied them, with materials of their choice, and the bits that came for the process but weren’t needed were disposed of.

    God can’t do that though can He? God created the world and from that He is building His Church. We “are living stones that God is building into his spiritual temple” but God doesn’t get to choose the stones that go into His temple does He? He may have a plan of what He wants to build but He doesn’t choose the materials, the materials have to choose to be part of the temple. What if He doesn’t get the right material, or enough of it?

    It took say about 150 generations for us to come into existence. The idea that God could say that He wanted <insert your name here> to be part of His church and was willing to wait 150 generations and was willing to forgo some of your ancestors (and descendants) to have you as a part of His church is not part of most people’s worldview, but why can’t God have a say in what happens in His universe? He created it didn’t He?

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