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Thread: Bursting the bubble

  1. #31
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    In my opinion, it is much easier to disprove OSAS than it is to disprove the allegation that one can lose salvation except by shipwrecking faith.

    If we turn the tables a bit, then it is also much easier to prove that one can lose salvation by shipwrecking faith than it is to try to prove at the same time that one can also lose salvation except by shipwrecking faith.

    I have in the past debated all sides and probably every proof text known to mankind. I have even debated both the other sides from that position in the middle, at the same time. "Loss of salvation through sinning" is a bit like Calvinism, just situated opposite to it - in that there is an enormous amount of scripture that could be seen as relevant and some of the proponents have such thick glasses that they see their doctrine on every single page of the Bible. It's like every half negative statement about anything is seen as declaring unconditional election or loss of salvation, to some people. But even in the absence of the really thick glassed proponents, both topics can be difficult.
    At the end of the day rests the warning...'Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling' because when eternity comes doctrinal absolutes won't amount to a hill of beans..

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  3. #32
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    At the end of the day rests the warning...'Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling' because when eternity comes doctrinal absolutes won't amount to a hill of beans..
    You mean like God is faithful and God doesn't lie ? If we strip away doctrinal absolutes then we may as well end up with God telling us "Well done my good and faithful servant, now descend into the lake of fire for eternity".

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  5. #33
    IF he is currently living in wilful adultery then if he died he would go to hell........that is 100% accurate

    It doesn't matter whether we understand how the Holy Spirit works and whether it has departed etc etc etc....that is our human reasoning trying to understand spiritual things as the natural mind does not understand it

    Presently he can still repent and his salvation be restored


    Prisons are full of people who have faith and BELIEVE and some are pentecostals and some have raped children and others murdered people and yet they haven't renounced Jesus....do we assume they are still saved

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  7. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    At the end of the day rests the warning...'Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling' because when eternity comes doctrinal absolutes won't amount to a hill of beans..

    Certain doctrines are absolute and can make a difference to spending eternity in heaven or hell

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  9. #35
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    IF he is currently living in wilful adultery then if he died he would go to hell........that is 100% accurate

    It doesn't matter whether we understand how the Holy Spirit works and whether it has departed etc etc etc....that is our human reasoning trying to understand spiritual things as the natural mind does not understand it

    @@@No, it's not. It's scripture :

    https://www.biblegateway.com/quickse...qs_version=NIV


    Presently he can still repent and his salvation be restored

    Prisons are full of people who have faith and BELIEVE and some are pentecostals and some have raped children and others murdered people and yet they haven't renounced Jesus....do we assume they are still saved

    @@@They would be in prison even if they have repented so the real question is what they were while they were doing those things. Paul told the Corinthians to test themselves to see if they were in the faith. Not to test themselves to see if they were still saved despite the fact that they all had faith. Everyone who professes to have faith doesn't have faith. Everyone who claims to speak in tongues and have the Holy Spirit doesn't have the Holy Spirit. Let's not be gullible about that.
    .

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  11. #36
    Colonel

    Do you always have to put your spin on everything - you remind me of a school teacher always correcting everyone

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  13. #37
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Colonel

    Do you always have to put your spin on everything - you remind me of a school teacher always correcting everyone
    Do you have a problem with dialogue ? You tend to get cranky whenever someone dares object to your declarations of truth.

    God's faithfulness to the terms of his covenant is an extremely important Biblical topic.

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  15. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Do you have a problem with dialogue ? You tend to get cranky whenever someone dares object to your declarations of truth.

    God's faithfulness to the terms of his covenant is an extremely important Biblical topic.

    You are not as innocent as you pretend....why did you throw in ''Lets not be gullible about that"....why not just debate instead of placing these underhanded comments

    Assuming that you KNOW every person who is in wilful sin does not have faith.....you presume to know every ones heart

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  17. #39
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    You are not as innocent as you pretend....why did you throw in ''Lets not be gullible about that"....why not just debate instead of placing these underhanded comments

    Assuming that you KNOW every person who is in wilful sin does not have faith.....you presume to know every ones heart
    According to the dictionary "gullible" means "easily deceived" as in believing whatever people tell us, including about their having and exercising faith. If that word seems derogatory to you then I apologize. English is not my first and daily language.

    I don't presume to know everyone's heart but some things are clearly defined by the Bible. For instance, someone may claim to follow all religions and to have the spirit of Krishna, Buddha and the Holy Spirit at the same time and speak in tongues. They do NOT have the Holy Spirit, not even if they only followed Jesus previously and still claim to believe in him as well. I know this because it follows from scripture, not because I presume to know everyone's heart.

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  19. #40
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    I might add another verse to the three I linked previously :

    Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
    17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

    That's the fourth witness from scripture that the presence of the Holy Spirit guarantees salvation into heaven. That doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit cannot depart but his presence guarantees that.

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