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Thread: Calvinist Tactics Exposed

  1. #241
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    I know enough to not say things like "even from their birth, the elect are never really not saved".
    How can one be definitely atoned for and particularly redeemed and at the same time not be saved ?

  2. #242
    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WMBillPrice View Post
    I am actually sickened by Reformed theology. It makes God discriminatory, makes one group more loved of God than the others, and makes salvation a password entitled country club where only a slect few can come in while the rest have NO HOPE to ever be saved. Why? The god of Reformed Theology takes pleasure in damning these other souls. Not all were condemned under sin according to Reformed theology as well, since God predestined certain ones to salvation. They were never truly condemned. Sorry, but how can this thought even be tolerated as believers to be biblically accurate? God is not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL come to repentance. Right there Reformed theology has a stake through it's cold heart. Sorry if this is harsh, but I know the scripture, and Calvinism is NOT the Gospel, and Reformed Theology, which has produced such fruit as apartheid in South Africa, is not of the Bible.
    Jesus makes it quite clear that only a few will be saved in:

    Matt 7:13-14 & Luke 13:23-24, 1 Peter 4:18
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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  4. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
    Jesus makes it quite clear that only a few will be saved in:

    Matt 7:13-14 & Luke 13:23-24.
    Noone here is a Universalist.

  5. #244
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    Will we do that for which we have been created, or will we rebell and go astray?

    As the Psalmist said, "Jehovah looked down from heaven upon the children of men to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek after God" (14:2).

    Only man, of all the creatures of God, can say "no" to God.

  6. #245
    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Noone here is a Universalist.
    Agreed!

    155,000 people die everyday. 2 every second.

    Howard Pittman saw 50 out of every 2000 make it to heaven.

    That's what I meant when I said "few will make it to heaven."
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

  7. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
    Agreed!

    155,000 people die everyday. 2 every second.

    Howard Pittman saw 50 out of every 2000 make it to heaven.

    That's what I meant when I said "few will make it to heaven."
    The difference is that with Calvinism, the others cannot (as in could not possibly) be saved.

  8. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    How can one be definitely atoned for and particularly redeemed and at the same time not be saved ?
    Because of time.

    Of definite atonement we read, "the death of Christ was intended to win the salvation of God's people alone; and not only was it intended to do that but it effectively achieved it as well" (emphasis mine, 10 Things You Should Know about Definite Atonement | Crossway Articles).

    "Particular redemption is shorthand for the biblical teaching that Jesus actually procured the salvation of the sinners who would be saved" (emphasis mine, Believe in Particular Redemption? Then Evangelize and Send Missionaries with Abandon : 9Marks).

    We went away for my b'day in Sep yet I paid for the balloon and Segway rides in Jan. Jesus paid for my redemption on the cross, but I wasn't born till 1900+ years later, than wasn't actually born again till 22 years after that.

    I go to Maccas drive-thru and order a think-shake. I drive to the next window and pay for it. I then drive to the next window and pick it up. It wasn't "made" till after I paid for it, but I didn't get it till some (short) time after it was paid for. Most of my shopping transactions are like that, I decide; I pay; I get, in that sequence.

  9. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    The difference is that with Calvinism, the others cannot (as in could not possibly) be saved.
    I would suggest that the difference is "the others will not be saved".

    What seems to be missing in the understanding of most folks is that 1) no one wants to be saved, and 2) no one deserves to be saved.

    Given that no one wants or deserves to be saved it then relies on God's mercy (Rom 9:15-16, 18, 23, 11:30-32, 15:9). As Augustine said, "We know that God's grace is not given to all men. To those to whom it is given it is given neither according to the merits of works, nor according to the merits of the will, but by free grace. To those to whom it is not given we know that it is because of God's righteous judgment that it is not given".

  10. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    Will we do that for which we have been created, or will we rebell and go astray?

    As the Psalmist said, "Jehovah looked down from heaven upon the children of men to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek after God" (14:2).

    Only man, of all the creatures of God, can say "no" to God.
    Yes, but how does the Bible answer that question? Twice?

    It says that we will all rebel and go astray.

    "There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one." (Rom 3, Ps 53)

    Not only can man say "No" to God, it's ALL he ever says to God.




  11. #250
    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Because of time.

    Of definite atonement we read, "the death of Christ was intended to win the salvation of God's people alone; and not only was it intended to do that but it effectively achieved it as well. 10 things you should know about definite atonement.
    I like #8 because your salvation must entirely rest in Jesus, and in Him alone, to ensure your salvation.
    The 5-point Calvinist is not exempt from the statement above as mentioned in #8 below.

    Christians who belong to the Reformed tradition love their doctrines, not least the 'doctrine of grace', of which definite atonement is one.
    But there is always the danger that we slip into thinking that doctrine--especially,--pure doctrine is what saves us.
    But we can be a card-carrying biblical inerrantist and still end up in hell. Just look at the Pharisees.
    We can be a member Christ's church, covenantally signed and sealed, and still end up in hell. Just look at Judas. And the same goes for '5 point Calvinists'.
    The danger is that we end up loving the Scripture, or the sign, or the doctrine more than the Savior.
    When our faith is in something other than Christ, then there is no salvation.
    Definite atonement does not save us, just as faith does not save us. Jesus Christ, who provided a definite atonement, saves us through faith.
    "The saying is trustworthy and deserving of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners" (1 Tim 1:15), not definite (or indefinite) atonement.
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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