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Thread: A troubling image for some.

  1. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Lcash View Post
    Lastly, in the book of Acts when Luke described the event with the seven sons of Scheva, was that descriptive or prescriptive? It was descriptive and was not a prescription of how things always work.
    Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. (Acts 17:11 NIV)

    One of our challenges with having on-line concordances is we find word strings (the word string "there is no god" occurs about a dozen times) but don't always examine the Scripture to see what it means. What if we considered David's adultery prescriptive, after all it led to Solomon, one of the ancestors of Jesus being born? (Matt 1:6)

    I'll give you an example of people being prescriptive.

    A priest discovered his baptism was invalid. Its ripple effects bring heartache and confusion to the entire church community

    The Archdiocese of Detroit is seeking to contact anyone who may have received invalid sacraments after a priest of the archdiocese learned his own baptism as an infant 30 years ago was invalid. ... the priest said "It was an alienating sense that even though I was following the Lord, I wasn't a Christian". Yep, RCCs think if you're not baptised you're not Christian.

    Catholic priests really think they can forgive sins, and an unforgiven mortal sin leads to hell.

    But what went wrong? What could have led to people who thought their mortal sins were forgiven going to hell? Well the priest who baptised this priest said "We baptise you ..." instead of "I baptise you ...". (I wonder how many other times he said that).

    A priest discovered his baptism was invalid. Its ripple effects bring heartache and confusion to the entire church community | America Magazine

  2. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. (Acts 17:11 NIV)

    One of our challenges with having on-line concordances is we find word strings (the word string "there is no god" occurs about a dozen times) but don't always examine the Scripture to see what it means. What if we considered David's adultery prescriptive, after all it led to Solomon, one of the ancestors of Jesus being born? (Matt 1:6)

    I'll give you an example of people being prescriptive.

    A priest discovered his baptism was invalid. Its ripple effects bring heartache and confusion to the entire church community

    The Archdiocese of Detroit is seeking to contact anyone who may have received invalid sacraments after a priest of the archdiocese learned his own baptism as an infant 30 years ago was invalid. ... the priest said "It was an alienating sense that even though I was following the Lord, I wasn't a Christian". Yep, RCCs think if you're not baptised you're not Christian.

    Catholic priests really think they can forgive sins, and an unforgiven mortal sin leads to hell.

    But what went wrong? What could have led to people who thought their mortal sins were forgiven going to hell? Well the priest who baptised this priest said "We baptise you ..." instead of "I baptise you ...". (I wonder how many other times he said that).

    A priest discovered his baptism was invalid. Its ripple effects bring heartache and confusion to the entire church community | America Magazine
    My point concerning descriptive vs prescriptive is quite simple when reading and interpreting the Bible especially in the history books such as the Pentateuch, The Gospels, and the book of Acts. We have events that are described as it happened and we have commands. The events that are descriptive only, cary no weight in doctrine or how we are to procede in our lives. For example, when Jesus took His spit, made mud with it and put it over the eyes of the blind man, was that descriptive or prescriptive? It was descriptive because that was not the only way Jesus healed the blind and there was no command for us to do likewise. However, when Jesus told the disciples to "Go into the world and make disciples", that was prescriptive as it was a command. Those events that are the result or that result in a command are prescriptive in which we are to use that for doctrine, reproof, exhortation, etc. So the first question one has to ask when reading these books is, "Is what I am reading descriptive or prescriptive?" Then procede from that point into the context of the writing. Who wrote it, who was the audience, and where was it written.

  3. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Lcash View Post
    My point concerning descriptive vs prescriptive is quite simple when reading and interpreting the Bible especially in the history books such as the Pentateuch, The Gospels, and the book of Acts. We have events that are described as it happened and we have commands.
    Exactly so when we have a prophet of God given visions including of divine glory (Ezekiel 1) is called by God (chap 2) commissioned by God (ch 3) makes many accurate prophesies (Ch 4, 5, 7) has more visions (ch 8, 9, 10) (we'll stop there)

    Now in the time of "Ahab (who) did more to provoke the Lord God of Israel than all the kings of Israel who were before him" (1 Kings 16) Ezekiel "As the Lord, the God of Israel lives, before whom I stand, surely there shall be neither dew nor rain these years, except by my word." (1 Kings 17) [there is an intermission here where he raises someone from the dead, but that's by the by] but in 1 Kings 18 we read. "Now it happened after many days that the word of the Lord came to Elijah in the third year, saying, "Go, show yourself to Ahab, and I will send rain on the face of the earth."". [but first we have the inciden with the 450 prophets of Baal, anyway] eventually we get to ""Elijah went up to the top of Carmel; and he crouched down on the earth and put his face between his knees. He said to his servant, "Go up now, look toward the sea." So he went up and looked and said, "There is nothing." And he said, "Go back" seven times. It came about at the seventh time, that he said, "Behold, a cloud as small as a man's hand is coming up from the sea."

    We then jump to James 5, and in the middle of talking on prayer James gives an example saying "Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the earth for three years and six months. Then he prayed again, and the sky poured rain and the earth produced its fruit."

    This is all descriptive. Nothing here is prescriptive. How people get from a description of a commissioned prophet of God bringing drought and later rain, onto the most wicked king of Israel so far, at the command of God, so that the king would know, to the idea that simply anyone can go out and command a storm to stop, is way beyond me.

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    Lcash (09-04-2020)

  5. #134
    James 5:16 The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. 17 Elijah was a human being, even as we are. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. 18 Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops.

  6. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by LionHeart View Post
    James 5:16 The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. 17 Elijah was a human being, even as we are. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. 18 Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops.
    Yes, which we are told in the context of prayer for healing.

    But he was also:


    • a prophet of God given visions including of divine glory
    • specifically called by God
    • specifically commissioned by God
    • was told by God that there would be no rain
    • was told by God to pray for rain and it rained.


    What is also interesting given James used this example when talking about prayer for healing, is later we see "(King) Ahaziah (of Israel) fell through the lattice in his upper chamber which was in Samaria, and became ill. So he sent messengers and said to them, "Go, inquire of Baal-zebub, the god of Ekron, whether I will recover from this sickness."" (2 Kings 1:1). Later in vv 16-17 we read "Then (Ezekiel) said to (Ahaziah), "Thus says the Lord, 'Because you have sent messengers to inquire of Baal-zebub, the god of Ekron—is it because there is no God in Israel to inquire of His word?—therefore you shall not come down from the bed where you have gone up, but shall surely die.'" So Ahaziah died according to the word of the Lord which Elijah had spoken."

    But you just can't take verses out of context and apply them willy-nilly LionHeart, that's what cults do.

  7. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Yes, which we are told in the context of prayer for healing.

    But he was also:


    • a prophet of God given visions including of divine glory
    • specifically called by God
    • specifically commissioned by God
    • was told by God that there would be no rain
    • was told by God to pray for rain and it rained.


    What is also interesting given James used this example when talking about prayer for healing, is later we see "(King) Ahaziah (of Israel) fell through the lattice in his upper chamber which was in Samaria, and became ill. So he sent messengers and said to them, "Go, inquire of Baal-zebub, the god of Ekron, whether I will recover from this sickness."" (2 Kings 1:1). Later in vv 16-17 we read "Then (Ezekiel) said to (Ahaziah), "Thus says the Lord, 'Because you have sent messengers to inquire of Baal-zebub, the god of Ekron—is it because there is no God in Israel to inquire of His word?—therefore you shall not come down from the bed where you have gone up, but shall surely die.'" So Ahaziah died according to the word of the Lord which Elijah had spoken."

    But you just can't take verses out of context and apply them willy-nilly LionHeart, that's what cults do.
    Because you are a Calvinist you missed the writers intent of those scriptures I showed you...More like a cult to me.

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    Nikos (09-05-2020)

  9. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by LionHeart View Post
    Because you are a Calvinist you missed the writers intent of those scriptures I showed you...More like a cult to me.
    Sorry LionHeart you'll have to refresh me on those Scriptures. I've looked back a week in this thread and missed what you've said, probably because I'm (apparently) a "Calvinist".

    FYI I was saved in a local church affiliated with a Charismatic denomination which later moved to affiliation with a Pentecostal denomination but I recently left as the local church "started as a church but is now registered as community organisation" and hasn't preached Gospel for years. However theologically my beliefs lean towards Reformed Theology, because I believe that God made the world for his purposes; He determines what He wants to happen; and He gets out of it what He wants, as opposed to God creating the world for man's purposes; man determining what will happen; and God getting what man gives him, and I believe that this better reflects what the Bible tells us.

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