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Senior Member
I'm on the same page as Susan on this issue.
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* Toxic Troll - Negative Nancy
Originally Posted by
Quest
Of course I do...Jesus was not called a wine bibber and a friend of sinners because He drank grape juice...
That called Him that cause He hung out with the down trodden of society... you know, those that did get drunk.
You know, if they see you hanging out with a pot smoker... they'll think maybe you been smoking a few hooters too.
He was telling them to turn away from their sin and serve God.... not partaking in their sin.
Got anything else you think it proof? That one is very very weak.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Farm Truck
That called Him that cause He hung out with the down trodden of society... you know, those that did get drunk.
You know, if they see you hanging out with a pot smoker... they'll think maybe you been smoking a few hooters too.
He was telling them to turn away from their sin and serve God.... not partaking in their sin.
Got anything else you think it proof? That one is very very weak.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Farm Truck
Not anymore than it is for a Christian to smoke dope socially, or snort coke, shoot H, etc, etc,
I remember the lines to a song from days gone by, .... "One toke over the line, sweet Jesus, ... one toke over the line..."
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Farm Truck
You have no scriptural proof that it was fermented wine.
There is no greek or hebrew word for "fruit of the vine" that differentiates between grape juice and fermented grape juce.
If you think Jesus drank alcoholic wine... then did He also partake of other intoxicants that were available at that time in history?
I mean, others got intoxicated... why wouldn't Jesus do the same?
Everyone drank fermented wine in that day but everyone did not get intoxicated. The only way to preserve it and store it for any time was to ferment it. Mr Welch had not yet invented the pasteurization process that permitted grape juice to be stored without spoilage.
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Super Moderator
History is an interesting thing.. You can't really change it, but you can decide to ignore it and make up your own.
Not helpful for making/keeping credibility.
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Senior Member
I come from strict holiness roots. It was taught as a sin according to the book of Proverbs where it says to avoid it when ferments (or changes colors).
The context tells you what it causes. I'm not saying it will send you to hell, but it always opens up a can of worms.
I've seen several people who were taught against it (including friends) who said they would only drink in moderation or with a meal. It never turned out that way. In my experience, it always ended up in a mess.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Pentecali
I come from strict holiness roots. It was taught as a sin according to the book of Proverbs where it says to avoid it when ferments (or changes colors).
The context tells you what it causes. I'm not saying it will send you to hell, but it always opens up a can of worms.
I've seen several people who were taught against it (including friends) who said they would only drink in moderation or with a meal. It never turned out that way. In my experience, it always ended up in a mess.
I drink a little bit of wine or beer at times. I have zero desire for alcohol meaning I can drink nothing at all for months and not think about it. Probably indefinitely. The only reason why I drink either beverage is because of the taste. Individual people may react differently at the physical level besides their attitude towards the whole thing, but that is how it works for me. During the 26 years since I first drank any alcohol at the age of 18, it has never ended up in a mess.
My impression is that if people who have a strong anti alcohol upbringing decide to go against that and drink moderately then they may end up using that newfound freedom carnally and end up drinking heavily. In that case it's not the alcohol, it is the act of jumping from one mindset to the other without having a strong conscience about the matter.
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* Toxic Troll - Negative Nancy
Originally Posted by
Ari
I remember the lines to a song from days gone by, .... "One toke over the line, sweet Jesus, ... one toke over the line..."
Yeah, by a bunch of doped up free love hippie freaks who were walking after the lust of the flesh!
Originally Posted by
Ari
Everyone drank fermented wine in that day but everyone did not get intoxicated. The only way to preserve it and store it for any time was to ferment it. Mr Welch had not yet invented the pasteurization process that permitted grape juice to be stored without spoilage.
According to Jewish historians, people preferred new wine to old wine (fermented).
In fact, since they couldn't store it for very long they made a paste out of it and yes that paste also fermented but what they would do is mix a little of that with water and make "wine" and the alcohol content of what you see in wine today is far greater, like 12 to 15 times greater, than what they were drinking.
They still do this in some places in the middle east today, so it's not comparing apples to apples when people say they were all drinking "wine" as it was not strong drink like the wine we have today.
Silly Christians... arguing for the right to drink intoxicants!
No wonder God said there was going to be a great falling away!
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Senior Member
There is one thing for sure: We can never become an alcoholic if we never take the first drink. I have seen homes destroyed, kids lives changed, marriages destroyed and not to mention the cause of death on the highways because of drunk driving. How can we glorify God with our lives if we act like the world. The Bible says to not let our good be evil spoken of. We are to be a light to the world - not a stumblingblock. I can almost guarantee that if a sinner sees us drinking, knowing we are Christians, he will let us know that he didn't think would Christians drink. We have to be careful to not fall into a trap that satan has designed for a fall.
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