Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 28 of 28

Thread: Hulk Hogan the Preacher

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    I'm just amazed that you guys believe that God is the One who did this; as if God needs to create a sickness (virus) to move people to stop worshipping idols and worship Him?
    There are two separate things here are there not VW? (1) Did God do this? and (2) If He did them why?

    As to (1), "While God sent his prophets to give (us) a clear word about such things back (in the Old Testament), we do not have the same sort of sure word today about particular disasters". However what does God clearly tell us in the Bible? Let me expand this quote from someone (who has more time than I) writing about something sorta similar.
    We are not privy to all the particular ways of God today. Does God use natural disasters to accomplish his purposes, including judging sinners, and even his own people? Absolutely.

    The Old Testament for example is full of this. There are hundreds of passages we could appeal to here. Let me offer just a few:

    -Leviticus 26:19-20 I will break down your stubborn pride and make the sky above you like iron and the ground beneath you like bronze. Your strength will be spent in vain, because your soil will not yield its crops, nor will the trees of your land yield their fruit.
    -Deuteronomy 32:23-24 I will heap calamities on them and spend my arrows against them. I will send wasting famine against them, consuming pestilence and deadly plague; I will send against them the fangs of wild beasts, the venom of vipers that glide in the dust.
    -2 Samuel 24:15 So the Lord sent a plague on Israel from that morning until the end of the time designated, and seventy thousand of the people from Dan to Beersheba died.
    -2 Kings 21:12 Therefore this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: I am going to bring such disaster on Jerusalem and Judah that the ears of everyone who hears of it will tingle.
    -Jeremiah 3:2-3 You have defiled the land with your prostitution and wickedness. Therefore the showers have been withheld, and no spring rains have fallen.
    -Jeremiah 11:23 I will bring disaster on the people of Anathoth in the year of their punishment.
    -Jeremiah 27:8 I will punish that nation with the sword, famine and plague.
    -Ezekiel 5:17 I will send famine and wild beasts against you, and they will leave you childless. Plague and bloodshed will sweep through you, and I will bring the sword against you. I the Lord have spoken.
    -Haggai 2:17 I struck all the work of your hands with blight, mildew and hail, yet you did not return to me,' declares the LORD.

    But as mentioned, while God sent his prophets to give a clear word about such things back then, we do not have the same sort of sure word today about particular disasters. So we must be cautious and wise here. (Is the virus a judgement from God?)

    Perhaps. But we must not be quick to offer judgment. We can however pray for the situation. We can pray for the family members and loved ones who are left behind. We can pray that something like this – as with all tragedies and disasters – will help these folks to seek the one true God, and his son Jesus.

    That would be a much more helpful response to such disasters than to make somewhat presumptuous claims about what exactly God may be doing in these situations. (REF)


    As the above quote says, "we must not be quick to offer judgment", but let's consider (2 - why?) and look at examples of God's judgement.

    One of the first things God said to man was "from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die" (Gen 2:17) and He followed it up in Gen 3 when the woman is cursed, the ground is cursed, and "He drove the man out" of Eden.

    Then in the days of Noah "The Lord said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky;"

    Later we see that "the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven".

    In Moses' day we see:

    Ex 6:1 Then the Lord said to Moses, "Now you shall see what I will do to Pharaoh
    Ex 7:17 Thus says the Lord, "By this you shall know that I am the Lord: behold, I will strike the water that is in the Nile with the staff that is in my hand, and it will be turned to blood.
    Ex 8:1 'Thus says the Lord, "Let My people go, that they may serve Me. But if you refuse to let them go, behold, I will smite your whole territory with frogs.
    Ex 8:21 if you do not let My people go, behold, I will send swarms of flies on you and on your servants
    Ex 9:1 "Let My people go, that they may serve Me. For if you refuse to let them go and continue to hold them, behold, the hand of the Lord will come with a very severe pestilence on your livestock which are in the field
    Ex 9:18 Behold, about this time tomorrow, I will send a very heavy hail,
    Ex 10:4 if you refuse to let My people go, behold, tomorrow I will bring locusts into your territory
    Ex 11:4 "Thus says the Lord, 'About midnight I am going out into the midst of Egypt, and all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of the Pharaoh who sits on his throne, even to the firstborn of the slave girl who is behind the millstones
    Ex 12:29 Now it came about at midnight that the Lord struck all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of cattle


    If we were not convinced that God brings judgements on sinful man let's look at what God says will happen to Israel of they don't obey His commandments: (From Deut 28)

    15 "But it shall come about, if you do not obey the Lord your God, to observe to do all His commandments and His statutes with which I charge you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

    16 "Cursed shall you be ...

    17 "Cursed shall be your ...

    18 "Cursed shall be the ...

    19 "Cursed shall you be ...

    20 "The Lord will send upon you curses, confusion, and rebuke, ...

    21 The Lord will make the pestilence cling to you ...

    22 The Lord will smite you with consumption and with fever ...

    23 The heaven which is over your head shall be bronze ...

    24 The Lord will make the rain of your land powder and dust ... (and so it goes on and on for another 44 verses. Have a read for yourself)

    And if this is what He will do to His chosen people, what will He do to those who hate Him?

    So unless we deny what the Bible clearly says (and thereby call God a liar), we know that God brings (what we call) "natural disasters" on the world; we know God judges the world; and we know that God uses "natural disasters" to bring judgement on the world.

    So where does that leave us? Back where we started I guess. As I quoted "while God sent his prophets to give a clear word about such things (in the OT), we do not have the same sort of sure word today about particular disasters. So we must be cautious and wise". Cautious enough to not go around proclaiming emphatically that this is a judgement from God, but wise enough to not say that it can't be.

  2. #22
    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    5,806
    Thanked: 5126
    Thing is, we aren't Israelites, that ship sailed and we live under a new covenant.

    Until the rider on the white horse shows up we live under grace, wrath is withheld.

    Christ in us reveals:

    James 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

    Would the Head dispute the body?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    Thing is, we aren't Israelites, that ship sailed and we live under a new covenant.

    Until the rider on the white horse shows up we live under grace, wrath is withheld.

    Christ in us reveals:

    James 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

    Would the Head dispute the body?
    Sorry John you'll have to expand that as I don't understand what you're saying.

    Salvation has always been by grace.

    Under wrath remain those you don't believe said Jesus (John 3:36) believing in our heart (Rom 10:9) including (but not being limited to):


    1. Believing Jesus was pierced for our transgressions and crushed for our iniquities;
    2. Believing that the punishment that He endured is what makes peace with God possible;
    3. Believing that the wounds He suffered were the price He paid to free His people from sin's bondage and heal them spiritually;
    4. Believing that God caused our iniquity to fall on Jesus;
    5. Believing that Jesus was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for our transgressions;
    6. Believing that He gave his life as a guilt offering for our sins; and
    7. Believing that by bearing our sins He earned our righteousness. (See Is 53:5-12)


    ...FFO

  4. #24
    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    5,806
    Thanked: 5126
    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Sorry John you'll have to expand that as I don't understand what you're saying.

    Salvation has always been by grace.

    Under wrath remain those you don't believe said Jesus (John 3:36) believing in our heart (Rom 10:9) including (but not being limited to):


    1. Believing Jesus was pierced for our transgressions and crushed for our iniquities;
    2. Believing that the punishment that He endured is what makes peace with God possible;
    3. Believing that the wounds He suffered were the price He paid to free His people from sin's bondage and heal them spiritually;
    4. Believing that God caused our iniquity to fall on Jesus;
    5. Believing that Jesus was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for our transgressions;
    6. Believing that He gave his life as a guilt offering for our sins; and
    7. Believing that by bearing our sins He earned our righteousness. (See Is 53:5-12)


    ...FFO
    If the wrath of man doesn't produce Godly sorrow (repentance) why would God tell us to refrain from wrath while He does it. We are the body, would the Head dispute with us? I think not.

    I guess in these high minded theological debates, I pretty much just look at the Character of Christ. If you can't pull it through the cross it just falls along the line of "of books, many are written".

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to John For This Useful Post:

    victoryword (04-17-2020)

  6. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    If the wrath of man doesn't produce Godly sorrow (repentance) why would God tell us to refrain from wrath while He does it. We are the body, would the Head dispute with us? I think not.

    I guess in these high minded theological debates, I pretty much just look at the Character of Christ. If you can't pull it through the cross it just falls along the line of "of books, many are written".
    Again, "I don't understand what you're saying"

    ...FFO

  7. #26
    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    5,806
    Thanked: 5126
    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Again, "I don't understand what you're saying"

    ...FFO
    When I think of the character of Christ, I imagine Him laying on that cross while soldiers are pounding stakes through His hands and feet and He's just loving them. Now I have a hard time thinking that He is going to willingly suffer that, go on to die on that cross like a common criminal, be buried, be resurrected on the third day, ascend to the right hand of the Father and then perpetrate wrath.

    It's all pretty simple.

  8. #27
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,094
    Thanked: 5502
    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    When I think of the character of Christ, I imagine Him laying on that cross while soldiers are pounding stakes through His hands and feet and He's just loving them. Now I have a hard time thinking that He is going to willingly suffer that, go on to die on that cross like a common criminal, be buried, be resurrected on the third day, ascend to the right hand of the Father and then perpetrate wrath.

    It's all pretty simple.
    No, his desire is for all men to be saved as 1 Tim 2 talks about. But there's still wrath for those who won't accept even what you described above as a remedy for their sin.

  9. #28
    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    5,806
    Thanked: 5126
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    No, his desire is for all men to be saved as 1 Tim 2 talks about. But there's still wrath for those who won't accept even what you described above as a remedy for their sin.
    There is eternal wrath for those who reject Him, hell awaits, but in the context of this topic .. is God now pouring out His wrath? No, He poured out His love in the form of sinless blood so we would not perish. He didn't suffer our sins so that He could ascend on high and perpetrate wrath.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Has your Ford Mustang warranty warranty expired? Get a fast online quote from CarWarrantyUS today. Enjoy the open road and leave the repairs to us.