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Thread: Hyper-Critics: Hillsong, Bethel Worship Music is Worse than Abortion - Michael Brown

  1. #1
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Hyper-Critics: Hillsong, Bethel Worship Music is Worse than Abortion - Michael Brown


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    Talk about straining gnats and swallowing camels.

    Fightin' Feudin' Fundamentalists. Sheesh. They just don't get it.

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    * Toxic Troll - Negative Nancy Farm Truck's Avatar
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    Hillsong, Bethel = differenr jesus, different gospel

    It's obvious cause they start off with "once saved, always saved" which is not supported by scripture.

    Jesus taught it was possible for one to fall away - read John 15

    Hillsong, Bethel (among others) are grace changers - they turn the grace of our Lord in to no restraint... which is why many of these "christians" live in sin and think they will spend eternity with the Lord.

    They be badly mistaken.

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    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    I've never heard Bethel teach once saved always saved. I'm not familiar with Hillsong.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    I've never heard Bethel teach once saved always saved. I'm not familiar with Hillsong.
    I don't think they do.

  9. #6
    * Toxic Troll - Negative Nancy Farm Truck's Avatar
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    I've never heard Bethel teach once saved always saved
    That's cause you haven't been paying attention!

    Why not contact this ministry and ask them if they believe in Calvin's "perseverance of the saints", you know the P in TULIP

    They are in fact one point Calvinists

    Apparently you also have not heard Bill Johnson, Kris Valloton and company are now teaching that gay people do NOT have to change from being gay? This directly violates scripture (if you need references that explain this, just let me know)

    "God loves all people, LGBTQ+ and straight. The message of CHANGED has never been "All Must Change." We share these stories specifically for Christians who are unfulfilled in identifying as LGBTQ+. For those of you who feel fulfilled and happy as you are, we love you! - God doesn't force people to change, and people – including Christians – shouldn't force others to change, either. We stand against any and all forms of shame, manipulation, force, humiliation, or physical harm in so-called "ministry" or therapy."

    This was posted on their Facebook page back on August 22nd, 2019

    Plenty of stuff out the on the net about Bethel church coming out as gay friendly. I know, I know... you still support this charlatan, this wolf in sheep's clothing that Jesus warns His true followers about in His Word. (if you need references that explain this, just let me know... but this will mean you'll have to quit cherry picking God's Word)

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10
    Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
    nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

  10. #7

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Farm Truck View Post
    Jesus taught it was possible for one to fall away - read John 15
    Probably an off topic question, but .....

    Most here would probably agree with that, but consider that the ASBURY BIBLE COMMENTARY says the first bit, is an allegory of a vine (an allegory being a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one), and is one of the famous I am metaphors (a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable); and consider that MATTHEW HENRY'S COMMENTARY suggests that verse 2 (they are taken away) is saying "It is here intimated that there are many who pass for branches in Christ who yet do not bear fruit. Were they really united to Christ by faith, they would bear fruit; but being only tied to him by the thread of an outward profession, though they seem to be branches, they will soon be seen to be dry ones".

    So considering that, would it be better to reference something clearer?

  11. #8
    not much of a fan of either, but that premise is ridiculous.

  12. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Probably an off topic question, but .....

    Most here would probably agree with that, but consider that the ASBURY BIBLE COMMENTARY says the first bit, is an allegory of a vine (an allegory being a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one), and is one of the famous I am metaphors (a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable); and consider that MATTHEW HENRY'S COMMENTARY suggests that verse 2 (they are taken away) is saying "It is here intimated that there are many who pass for branches in Christ who yet do not bear fruit. Were they really united to Christ by faith, they would bear fruit; but being only tied to him by the thread of an outward profession, though they seem to be branches, they will soon be seen to be dry ones".

    So considering that, would it be better to reference something clearer?
    you won't be getting a reply.. Mr Truck has left the building

  13. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    I've never heard Bethel teach once saved always saved. I'm not familiar with Hillsong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    I don't think they do.
    What a religious organisation teaches is flexible really as most have many local assemblies with different leaders, and it's difficult for them to think similarly. And it's no surprise that some younger leaders are more liberal (read non-Biblical) in their "theology". So where does that leave us?

    Hillsong's "what we believe" makes no reference to the "perseverance of the saints1" (btw Farm Truck, Calvin would have no idea what you're talking about if you said that to him), and they say they are "closely associated with the Australian Christian Churches" whose Doctrinal Basis makes no reference to it either. (as an aside, Hillsong is considered a separate denomination from ACC under Australian marriage law)

    If we look at Revelation 2 & 3 we see that after 50-60 years churches can become apostate. Certainly Laodicea was, with Sardis not being much better. In fact I know a church that was closely associated with Hillsong though is now simply ACC, that is a Sardis church, having a reputation of being alive but is dead. They're probably approaching apostasy, having not preached the Gospel of salvation for over three years, having not even said the word sin for over nine months, having gone over six months without having communion, having had at least two speakers who support same sex marriage and one (twice) who (on the basis of probability) seems to have had a very cavalier attitude to the death of his children2.

    If we are students of the Bible we should not be surprised to see churches start off good then become bad. Israel did it all the time. Paul's letters often addressed problems in the different churches. Most of Judah's and Israel's kings were evil (see https://s3.amazonaws.com/bg3-blog/bl...ated2020-1.jpg).


    ...FFO

    1) Here's some scriptures purported to support the idea of the perseverance of the saints.
    2) The speaker spent most of his time telling us how he and his wife just had a child via IVF.

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