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Thread: Oneness Pentecostalism

  1. #311
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Oneness was rejected by the Church Fathers in 300AD but their supporters keep pretending it was the false Catholic Church who rejected Oneness to support their delusion.

    The Catholic Church as we know it did not exist back them. It was the christian based in Rome who developed from the early church.
    Unfortunately the Catholic structure eventually developed but it is a red herring Oneness uses to paint the early church fathers as the modern Catholic Church

    Oneness was weighed on the scales and found wanting as a false doctrine by the true christians

  2. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
    No amount of independent Bible study apart from the Lord's help will produce a concise and clear understanding of biblical theology.
    I think I agree with most of what you've said here. Especially this last line.

    When I first read the Bible cover to cover, my favorite verse was 1 Jn. 2:27. It really spoke to me and still does.

    "But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him."

    God bless.

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  4. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Oneness was rejected by the Church Fathers in 300AD but their supporters keep pretending it was the false Catholic Church who rejected Oneness to support their delusion.

    The Catholic Church as we know it did not exist back them. It was the christian based in Rome who developed from the early church.
    Unfortunately the Catholic structure eventually developed but it is a red herring Oneness uses to paint the early church fathers as the modern Catholic Church
    I think it's far from a completely fraudulent red-herring.

    Many like myself believe, due to historical information, that the Roman Catholic church began around the time that Constantine, the Roman Emperor, joined himself, and his lifelong pagan practices, to the Christianity of his day - around 312-325 A.D.

    Others say it began closer to 600 A.D., but ironically the Catholic Church itself claims that it began around 30-33 A.D.

    So it's far from a red-herring to say that it was established at the time of the disappearance of the Mithraic religion, when the Emperor of Rome united Christianity with his pagan religion in the 4th century. And it's more so an outright falsehood to claim that it didn't even exist yet at that time in history.

    Many historians claim that Roman Catholicism was born of Constantine's combination of the two religions, with its various odd pagan rituals which were similar to religions of that time.

  5. #314
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ONEmeansONE View Post
    I think it's far from a completely fraudulent red-herring.

    Many like myself believe, due to historical information, that the Roman Catholic church began around the time that Constantine, the Roman Emperor, joined himself, and his lifelong pagan practices, to the Christianity of his day - around 312-325 A.D.

    Others say it began closer to 600 A.D., but ironically the Catholic Church itself claims that it began around 30-33 A.D.

    So it's far from a red-herring to say that it was established at the time of the disappearance of the Mithraic religion, when the Emperor of Rome united Christianity with his pagan religion in the 4th century. And it's more so an outright falsehood to claim that it didn't even exist yet at that time in history.

    Many historians claim that Roman Catholicism was born of Constantine's combination of the two religions, with its various odd pagan rituals which were similar to religions of that time.

    The Church Fathers were battling false doctrines creeping into the Church and they had to address those issues. They all converged in the 300's but what they concluded with was the Nicene Creed which was inspired by God Almighty.

    The perfect rebuttal to false oneness teaching

    Bringing in Mithraic and other false teachings was irrelevant to the Church fathers and the Nicene Creed.

    Many false teachings crept in but we have to discern the why's, how's and when's

  6. #315
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    The Church Fathers were battling false doctrines creeping into the Church and they had to address those issues. They all converged in the 300's but what they concluded with was the Nicene Creed which was inspired by God Almighty.

    The perfect rebuttal to false oneness teaching

    Bringing in Mithraic and other false teachings was irrelevant to the Church fathers and the Nicene Creed.

    Many false teachings crept in but we have to discern the why's, how's and when's
    Oddly, secular comparisons between Mithraism and Christianity tend to revolve around all kinds of things except the concept of a trinity. I'm not sure what about Mithraism is trinitarian, maybe they came to steal that concept from Christianity? Does anyone know what the three gods of Mithraism are called?

  7. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    The Church Fathers were battling false doctrines creeping into the Church and they had to address those issues. They all converged in the 300's but what they concluded with was the Nicene Creed which was inspired by God Almighty.
    What they concluded was all founded on "inference", not on anything specifically written in the Bible. That's not how God operates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Bringing in Mithraic and other false teachings was irrelevant to the Church fathers and the Nicene Creed.
    And yet it happens to be the origin of the trinity concept. And the trinity doctrine was concluded to be "orthodoxy" at that counsel.

    Can you point to any teaching in the Bible anywhere that declares that the truths of Scripture are to be "inferred" rather than based on plain text and sound teaching?

    Trinity proponents to this day claim that the concept is "inferred" as does Wikipedia, Google and other authoritative sources.

  8. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Oddly, secular comparisons between Mithraism and Christianity tend to revolve around all kinds of things except the concept of a trinity. I'm not sure what about Mithraism is trinitarian, maybe they came to steal that concept from Christianity? Does anyone know what the three gods of Mithraism are called?
    I really don't know what difference it makes what the gods were called, it is well documented that there were many pre-Christian religions that held to tri-gods or tri-person gods.

    Are you challenging that fact?

    There's lots of information to support that.

  9. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Does anyone know what the three gods of Mithraism are called?
    From a brief search I just find Ormuzd, Anhita and Mithra with Mithra taking over as the main worshiped god.

    "One of the Persian kings, Artaxerxes Mnemon, rededicating a Zoroastrian temple which Darius his ancestor had built, solemnly declared: 'By the grace of Ormuzd I have here established Anhita and Mithra. May Ormuzd, Anhita, and Mithra protect me.' This new trinity plays no great part in the later Zoroastrianism."

    -Thomas H. Weisser Three Persons from the Bible? or Babylon p. 26

  10. #319
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ONEmeansONE View Post
    From a brief search I just find Ormuzd, Anhita and Mithra with Mithra taking over as the main worshiped god.

    "One of the Persian kings, Artaxerxes Mnemon, rededicating a Zoroastrian temple which Darius his ancestor had built, solemnly declared: 'By the grace of Ormuzd I have here established Anhita and Mithra. May Ormuzd, Anhita, and Mithra protect me.' This new trinity plays no great part in the later Zoroastrianism."

    -Thomas H. Weisser Three Persons from the Bible? or Babylon p. 26
    That's not Mithraism, that's Zoroastrianism. The allegation was that Trinitarian Christians borrowed trinitarianism from specifically Mithraism. If it's some other religion then there is no point, because 300 AD Mithraism is the one with a wide range of similarities to Christianity, especially to Catholicism.

  11. #320
    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ONEmeansONE View Post
    I think I agree with most of what you've said here. Especially this last line.

    When I first read the Bible cover to cover, my favorite verse was 1 Jn. 2:27. It really spoke to me and still does.

    "But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him."

    God bless.
    Amplified version 1 John 2:27

    But as for you, (the sacred appointment, the unction) the anointing which you received from Him,
    abides (permanently) in you; [so] then you have no need that anyone should instruct you.
    But just as His anointing teaches you concerning everything, and is true, and is no falsehood,
    so you must abide---live, never to depart [rooted in Him, knit to Him] just as [His anointing] has taught you [to do].

    Weymouth version 1 John 2:27

    And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him remains within you,
    and there is no need for anyone to teach you. But since His anointing gives you
    instruction in all things---and is true and is no falsehood---you are continuing
    in union with Him even as it has taught you to do.

    The prior verse, 26, John stated he wrote these things because false teachers and deceivers had arisen within the church.
    Some Christians have used v. 27 as an excuse not to attend church.
    But John is not admonishing to neglect godly teachers in the body of Christ. But it should be noted that believers are not dependent on human wisdom or the opinions of men (or women) for truth (Acts 17:11). Relying on a certain individual to interrupt what the Bible means leads to deception (Charles Taze Russell JW, Joseph Smith, Mormons, Mary Baker Eddy, Christian Science, L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology, David Brandt Berg, The family, David Koresh, Branch Davidians, to name just a few. The early church had the same problem with deceivers of this nature (2 John 7, Jude 4).

    God's Holy Spirit guards and guides the true believer. The Holy Spirit ("an anointing," v. 27, guards them from error. Christ as the Holy One imparts the Holy Spirit as their illuminating guardian from deception. The Holy Spirit also guides the believer into knowing "all things" (Jn 14:26, 16:13). True Christians have a built-in lie detector and persevere in the truth. Those who listen to heresy, and embrace it, fall away (Matt 24:10-12) and eventually are given over to apostasy (2 Tim 4:3-4). If God is true, and Christ is truth, so is the Holy Spirit. abide in Him. In response to present day deceivers, the goal of the genuine believer is to "walk in the truth," persevere in faithfulness and sound doctrine.

    V. 28, The return of Christ.

    The hope Christ's return has a sanctifying effect on moral and godly behavior as we continue to persevere in faith and obedience which is abiding in Christ. Abiding signifies a permanent remaining in Christ and guarantees the believer's hope in anticipation of His return and reward. Those who are saved will have confidence at the Lord's coming because they will be blameless in holiness based on their abiding in Christ.

    The hope of Jesus' return not only sustains faith but makes righteousness a habit. Those truly born again as God's children partake of their heavenly Father's divine nature (2 Peter 1:4). As a result, they will display characteristics of God's righteousness (2 Peter 1:1, 5-7) which affirms that righteous living is proof of being born again.

    But according to His promise we are looking for
    new heavens and a new earth,
    in which righteousness dwells.
    (2 Peter 3:13).
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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