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Thread: Bethel Worship leader's child dies: they are believing for resurrection

  1. #11
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Well, I have no problem with them going for it. Jesus commissioned the disciples to raise the dead even before the cross, we have our own commission which is after the cross, and Jesus gave no qualifications for doing any of it. He didn't say to pray about who you are to minister to, just do it. They went for it, it didn't happen, it is what it is. Life goes on. And I don't care what the world thinks because they hate us anyway no matter what we do. It's like CFA thinking because they capitulate on one thing, then the LGBT+ will be satisfied. We already saw how that works when they came back with even more demands. Same for these things. Just obey God. We don't have it all figured out, but we can sure step over the chicken line and be bold. Freely we have received, freely we give.

    And what I said above is something to think about. Even dead and decaying in the grave isn't too late according to Jesus.

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  3. #12
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Well, I have no problem with them going for it. Jesus commissioned the disciples to raise the dead even before the cross, we have our own commission which is after the cross, and Jesus gave no qualifications for doing any of it. He didn't say to pray about who you are to minister to, just do it. They went for it, it didn't happen, it is what it is. Life goes on. And I don't care what the world thinks because they hate us anyway no matter what we do. It's like CFA thinking because they capitulate on one thing, then the LGBT+ will be satisfied. We already saw how that works when they came back with even more demands. Same for these things. Just obey God. We don't have it all figured out, but we can sure step over the chicken line and be bold. Freely we have received, freely we give.

    If you knew the mother would you tell her to wait months if need be with her child in the morgue

  4. #13
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    If you knew the mother would you tell her to wait months if need be with her child in the morgue
    No. But, even saints were raised who had been dead for years when Jesus was resurrected. Just making the point that decay wasn't even a problem for Jesus. I'm not sure how believing for their child to be raised is a stain against the body of Christ. When it doesn't work, the world mocks? They mock anyway. So go for it. If you don't, it definitely won't happen. He is able to do EXCEEDINGLY ABOVE all we can ask OR THINK. You won't find me criticizing it.

  5. #14
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    A possible scenario

    All believers with enough emotion can stop all funerals of loved ones, keep them in the morgue and tell everyone they are believing for a resurrection
    This isn't faith or wise or discerning its deception and gullible

    If they wait long enough until Jesus returns they will get their resurrection


    Seriously I don't care that its Bethel or Bill Johnson or whoever big church name. History tells us even well know ministers can lose their way and if the leadership is supporting this then they have lost their way in this specific area of expecting a resurrection

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  7. #15
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Agree to disagree. They're just believing for their baby to be raised. Nothing wrong with that. You're extrapolating it beyond what it is.

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  9. #16
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    No. But, even saints were raised who had been dead for years when Jesus was resurrected. Just making the point that decay wasn't even a problem for Jesus. I'm not sure how believing for their child to be raised is a stain against the body of Christ. When it doesn't work, the world mocks? They mock anyway. So go for it. If you don't, it definitely won't happen. He is able to do EXCEEDINGLY ABOVE all we can ask OR THINK. You won't find me criticizing it.
    Fuego you cant compare the greatest miracle in human history the resurrection of Jesus and the above passage with other resurrections. The specific verse you quote has a valid scriptural reason and purpose behind it.

    Resurrections are possible but they fall under different categories to Jesus resurrection because if that was the case the NT would be FULL of resurrections everywhere and even the apostles who had great power did not exercise what you are suggesting

    Apostle Peter says that King Davids corpse was decayed...why didn't he rise

  10. #17
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Agree to disagree. They're just believing for their baby to be raised. Nothing wrong with that. You're extrapolating it beyond what it is.
    What happens when it doesn't occur...who ministers to the hurting and disillusioned

  11. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Sorry to say this but believers can be very emotional and undiscerning.
    There are comments that children and others have been brought back to life so it should happen with this baby

    Christians then say God brought back my loved one in a coma, or they died by drowning and resuscitated or were on life support and died but resuscitated.
    All of these are wonderful healings by God but they are not resurrections and cannot be compared to this child lying dead for days in a morgue

    My niece was in a massive accident and kept alive through life support and in danger of brain damage...people prayed and she came out alive with no brain damage
    But it wasn't a resurrection

    Not trying to be a doubter but we must be real and deal with truth. Expect miracles but be discerning as well
    That's why I was wondering what led up to her dying...did she have a known or unknown health condition? Will there be an autopsy? Somehow I doubt it, although it may be out of the parents' hands at that point, just so to rule out anything suspect. I'm speaking as someone who has worked in healthcare for almost thirty years. OF COURSE God can raise her up, but if He doesn't don't say people's faith wasn't enough or blame some human failure to believe/declare/confess.

  12. #19
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    What happens when it doesn't occur...who ministers to the hurting and disillusioned
    So we don't obey God just because something might not happen? We witness and people don't get saved. We pray for the sick and people don't get healed. We try to cast out devils and they don't get cast out. We try to raised the dead and they don't get raised. Since when do we not obey because we're not operating at 100% in the power of the Holy Spirit? Who ministers to the hurting and disillusioned no matter what happens when we don't get results? It's a part of life. It's a part of the Christian life. We just keep our faith in God, still knowing what His will is even though we don't always get the desired result. There's all kinds of things that hurt and disillusions Christians. I guess the same ones that minister to the others when they're hurting and disillusioned no matter what the circumstance.

    Sincerely, I really don't get that attitude about this. and you're not the only one that's stated it the way you have. A lot of people agree with you. I'm not criticizing you, just disagreeing. I will give you this, when we do this, just do it. You don't have to trumpet it all over Instagram, fb, social media, etc. That's not going to increase your odds of success. I don't get the point of doing that unless they think they're adding others faith by doing it. I think it attracts more unbelief than I do faith. If this happened to me and I was going to do it, it would be between me God, and the few people around that know about it.

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  14. #20
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    .... when we do this, just do it. You don't have to trumpet it all over Instagram, fb, social media, etc. That's not going to increase your odds of success. I don't get the point of doing that unless they think they're adding others faith by doing it. I think it attracts more unbelief than I do faith. If this happened to me and I was going to do it, it would be between me God, and the few people around that know about it.
    Totally agree with you there

    When my niece was in a coma on life support only a few people prayed...my SIL was a total mess and distraught

    I was lying in bed with my wife and we joined hands and asked God for a miracle....after I said Amen .......I heard these words very clearly - I HAVE HEARD YOUR PRAYER
    It was very clear and precise and seemed audible to me but my wife didn't hear those words.

    I immediately told her what I heard ...God has answered.... I had peace and a solid faith all will be well.
    The strange thing was I had no emotion didn't want to jump and shout - I knew it was settled and what we did was give thanks

    My niece did miraculously recover

    God heals differently so our situation will vary with others but as you said God heals without thousands of believers proclaiming on social media for God to work a miracle
    Is the faith in God or on as many people as possible praying and making it public

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