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Thread: John G Lake a thorough fraud ?

  1. #11
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireBrand View Post
    I have one of his books.
    The only book I have come across and read about John G. Lake was written by the Copeland's if I remember correctly. Maybe they got the information wrong? Did he write any books about himself?

    One who might know today would be Curry Blake Curry Blake – JGLM

  2. #12
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    The only book I have come across and read about John G. Lake was written by the Copeland's if I remember correctly. Maybe they got the information wrong? Did he write any books about himself?

    One who might know today would be Curry Blake Curry Blake – JGLM
    I read Bill Johnson and Liardon's biographies and Liardon's book about him "Flow in the Spirit", they talk about the same things : Lake was ordained as a minister, worked as an engineer, became wealthy etc before he left for South Africa in 1908. None of which is true according to the critics.

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    Senior Member Romans828's Avatar
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    Perhaps he made those claims before he became a Christian? - I know I "embellished the truth" on occasion, before salvation.

    ... Either way, I was deeply blessed by reading accounts of his life and ministry, and it helped boost my faith tremendously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Romans828 View Post
    Perhaps he made those claims before he became a Christian? - I know I "embellished the truth" on occasion, before salvation.

    ... Either way, I was deeply blessed by reading accounts of his life and ministry, and it helped boost my faith tremendously.
    No, he became a Christian way before all those things, including his education and ordination as a Methodist minister in 1891 which the critics claim there exist no records of, not even of the seminary that he claims to have attended.

    Could he have conned his way into the position of a well connected Pentecostal minister and then God used him mightily anyway while he never repented of his fraudulent claims ? That seems implausible.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Tracing some details here....

    Wikipedia :

    "He graduated from high school in St Mary's shortly before the move to Michigan, and claimed to have been ordained into the Methodist ministry at the age of twenty-one.[4] The seminary he claimed to have attended, though, never existed,[6]:53"

    Since he was born in 1870 that means he graduated from seminary in 1891.

    Wikipedia again :

    "Lake moved to a suburb of Chicago, Harvey, in 1890, where he worked as a roofer and construction worker before returning to his hometown in 1896."

    So according to Wikipedia he was in Harvey, Chicago in 1891 when he graduated from the Methodist seminary. But their own claim that the seminary never existed is taken from Barry Morton :

    "Lake claimed that as a young man he attended a Methodist seminary in his wife's home town of Newberry, Michigan, before leaving for Chicago."

    And now the years and places no longer line up. Both Liardon and Bill Johnson claim that he studied in a seminary in Chicago then he moved to Harvey, Illinois where he met his wife and only after marrying her in 1893 did he move to her hometown of Newberry, Michigan.

    Looking at the footnote for Barry Morton's claim makes it even more intriguing :

    "Nel says that Lake never claimed to have gone to seminary in Newberry, but in fact a letter to the editor, "Science Plus Bible," Spokane Press, 16 July 1924, says this. My view is corroborated by Burpeau, God's Showman: A Historical Study of John G Lake and South African/American Pentecostalism (Oslo: Refleks, 2004), 27-8."

    So Lake or whoever said in a letter 30 years later that Lake went to seminary in Newberry. Could that have been a simple mistake, a false recollection ? I'm starting to suspect that Barry Morton, at least, has tried hard to render things as negatively as he possibly can. And then Wikipedia employs him as a source while messing up the details in the process.

    But I would still like to see if someone can find John G Lake in the Chicago Board of Trade records. Is anyone up to it ?

  8. #16
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Wikipedia isn't the place where one goes when they want absolute truth. It can be easily manipulated.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    Wikipedia isn't the place where one goes when they want absolute truth. It can be easily manipulated.
    Barry Morton is the problem but wikipedia's sourcing of him obscures the problem unless one goes to the source. This is a common problem with all kinds of journalism. Whoever wrote (that part of) the wikipedia article may or may very well not have been aware of the fact that the details don't line up.

    When talking about absolute truth, it is possible that Liardon and Bill Johnson and others have simply quoted John G Lake's biographical details as he himself presented them. If those details are impossible to verify through any other source than John G Lake himself, then that is a problem.

  11. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Barry Morton is the problem but wikipedia's sourcing of him obscures the problem unless one goes to the source. This is a common problem with all kinds of journalism. Whoever wrote (that part of) the wikipedia article may or may very well not have been aware of the fact that the details don't line up.

    When talking about absolute truth, it is possible that Liardon and Bill Johnson and others have simply quoted John G Lake's biographical details as he himself presented them. If those details are impossible to verify through any other source than John G Lake himself, then that is a problem.
    Do you have a Google account? Go over there and correct them where you can.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireBrand View Post
    Do you have a Google account? Go over there and correct them where you can.
    If I can find and link a mention of his name in the Chicago Board of Trade records then I might try.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    For those who wondered about the allegation involving John G. Lake as an "Arab healer" towards the end of his life in 1933, here's an other perspective on that, do a word search for "abdul" :

    https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/145047690.pdf

    On the same page there's a mention of Lawrence of Arabia. It seems that John G. Lake was much too fond of joking, including to reporters, and this may be a source of the problems with biographical and other details.

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