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Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
Be it to you according to your faith
As for me I belong to the greatest and most special and blessed type of human -
washed with the blood of Jesus, filled with the Holy Spirit and seated in heavenly places with Christ
The greatest riches to come for all eternity will belong to the redeemed saints Jew and gentile
Eph 2:7 - that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Per the underlined .. that you do but it doesnt negate Deuteronmy 14:2 .. The two notions are not mutually exclusive
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Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
The danger is bias and spin of scripture creeps in on both sides.
There are promises to natural Israel but sections of the church have gone overboard in promoting Israel and Jews as if they are a more special and blessed class of human
Obviously there are believers who are derogatory of Israel and that is wrong and then anti-semitism can arise
Overall I really like and support Dr Brown but there have been occasions where I believe he crosses the line in interpreting scripture to support of Israel because he is Jewish and has not taken all scriptures in balance
Before the holocaust and the instituting of the nation of Israel, Christians typically saw contemporary Jews as largely irrelevant in Biblical prophecy and in God's plans for their own times. Many were anti-semitic - if not by doctrine then in practical reality. After the holocaust things changed enormously and the formation of the nation of Israel also put Jews both as a religious group and as a specific nation on the religious map again. Where Christians had been anti-semitic or at least ignored Jews previously, many Christians have become Israel-centric and pro-Israel to extremes. With some Christians, Jews and Israel have become something practically beyond criticism, just like gays are to many people. Kind of like "the person did this and that" - "oh, but they are gay" - "okay, then it's just a gay thing and therefore okay".
This transformation from anti to pro Israel within a century has of course fundamentally been a good thing but sudden changes like that typically lead over into the ditch opposite from the original one. Which can be seen with the gay question. 70 years ago Norwegians ranked homosexuality number seven on a list of deplorable acts, now they are more likely to celebrate it and think of it as cool. From hyper-anti-gay to pro-gay to ridiculous extremes. All within a century or less.
Besides Jews and Israel obviously being very much within criticism just like everyone else is, there are lots of negative statements and prophecies relating to Jews in the NT. Where such statements were focused on and positive prophecies were ignored 100 years ago, such statements are largely ignored today and it's also difficult to discuss them at all. Not that I take any particular interest in them in a personal sense, but they are there and they are part of scripture. Here's a couple of examples :
Rev 2:8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,
‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:
9 “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
He's not referring to every Jew or the nation of Israel in general but he is referring to Jews that are persecuting Christians and blaspheming Jesus. Very many religious Jews today fit into the latter category.
Here he's talking to the Pharisees, notice the last three verses :
Mat 23:29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous,
30 and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’
31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.
32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt.
33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?
34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city,
35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
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Originally Posted by
Valiant Woman
"And I will bless those who bless you [who confer prosperity or happiness upon you] and curse him who curses or uses insolent language toward you; in you will all the families and kindred of the earth be blessed [and by you they will bless themselves]. [Gal. 3:8.]"**Genesis *12:3 *
"And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins." Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
"For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience," even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all." Romans *11:26-32 *
"For you are a holy people [set apart] to the Lord your God; and the Lord has chosen you to be a peculiar people to Himself, above all the nations on the earth." **Deuteronomy *14:2 *
Enough said.
AMEN!!!!!
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Valiant Woman (07-02-2019)
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I read this book in the late 80s and I was convinced and remain convinced that Christians should support Israel.
https://www.amazon.com/Our-Debt-Isra...s=books&sr=1-7
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Originally Posted by
BAP
Great to see you VW
Your post said it all -->
the Lord has chosen you to be a peculiar people to Himself, above all the nations on the earth." **Deuteronomy *14:2 *
Sounds to me like they are indeed "
a more special and blessed class of human" to quote the Great Cardinal
Thank you! Likewise!
And that was my point exactly, as scripture proves, "a more special and blessed class of human".
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Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Col 3:11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.
It would be strange if Jews went from being superior human beings to being like everyone else once they enter into Christ.
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Originally Posted by
BAP
Before I address your male vs female scenario I'd like to know if you think that Jews are superior to non-Jews only before salvation or irrespective of salvation.
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Originally Posted by
Colonel
Before I address your male vs female scenario I'd like to know if you think that Jews are superior to non-Jews only before salvation or irrespective of salvation.
There is that superior word again .. see my earlier response to The Cardinal
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