Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 52

Thread: Deliverance

  1. #1
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793

    Deliverance



    Watch from 14:50 and on for a couple of minutes. He has an approach to deliverance that is a bit different to the one promoted by TLR. An approach I agree with wholeheartedly because it focuses on producing delivered people rather than spectacular deliverances. On Jesus having delivered someone rather than on the devil(s) being cast out of the person.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan
    Posts
    3,970
    Thanked: 2924
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post


    Watch from 14:50 and on for a couple of minutes. He has an approach to deliverance that is a bit different to the one promoted by TLR. An approach I agree with wholeheartedly because it focuses on producing delivered people rather than spectacular deliverances. On Jesus having delivered someone rather than on the devil(s) being cast out of the person.
    That is great. Todd has an awesome ministry. However, we must not discount the TLR approach either. Their approach lines up exactly with Acts chapter 8.

    I know that we don't have to get loud, although it sometimes seems to. At least that is what I have experienced. Not because they are hard of hearing and you need to shout at them, but that it sometimes becomes intense and almost like a strong argument between 2 people.

    The last person I baptized had demons that had been with him for probably over 50 years. They said that they weren't going to come out, and I kept insisting that they must come out. It got a little loud, probably because of the struggle, and I was strongly assuring them that they would have to come out, not that loudness casts them out any faster. The fact is, they came out because they didn't have a choice. Someone who doesn't know exactly who they are in Christ may have given up after 5 minutes. I was at it for probably about an hour. After that one came out the person still could not look me in the eyes and I knew that there was at least one more. It came out with less of a struggle, and then the man felt light and free. He even said that he could see out of his one eye that had been blind for a while.

    The result is much more important than the method. Freedom!!!

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ezekiel 33 For This Useful Post:

    A.J. (04-30-2019), Highly Favoured (05-03-2019)

  4. #3
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    People struggling with their demons is one thing, that doesn't mean that the person commanding the devil to leave needs to struggle. As an example, there was a young man on the commuting train once who kept praising the devil (I don't recall the exact wording but it was to that effect). It was obvious to me that there was a huge devil there motioning him to talk like that before the people on the train so I commanded the devil to leave and he abruptly stopped and didn't start again for the remainder of the train ride. The interesting detail was that there was no way that the person could hear my command. Why did I do it that way ? It had to do with the circumstances.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Colonel For This Useful Post:

    FireBrand (04-29-2019), sojourner (04-30-2019)

  6. #4
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan
    Posts
    3,970
    Thanked: 2924
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    People struggling with their demons is one thing, that doesn't mean that the person commanding the devil to leave needs to struggle. As an example, there was a young man on the commuting train once who kept praising the devil (I don't recall the exact wording but it was to that effect). It was obvious to me that there was a huge devil there motioning him to talk like that before the people on the train so I commanded the devil to leave and he abruptly stopped and didn't start again for the remainder of the train ride. The interesting detail was that there was no way that the person could hear my command. Why did I do it that way ? It had to do with the circumstances.
    I have had similar occurances. A man once walked into a Dr.'s waiting room where I was sitting. As he talked to the receptionist every other word out of his mouth was taking the Lord's name in vain. I quietly spoke; "Spirit of blasphemy, shut up!" There was no way that the man heard me, but the demon surely did because he stopped using the Lord's name.

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ezekiel 33 For This Useful Post:

    Colonel (04-29-2019), sojourner (04-30-2019)

  8. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    People struggling with their demons is one thing, that doesn't mean that the person commanding the devil to leave needs to struggle. As an example, there was a young man on the commuting train once who kept praising the devil (I don't recall the exact wording but it was to that effect). It was obvious to me that there was a huge devil there motioning him to talk like that before the people on the train so I commanded the devil to leave and he abruptly stopped and didn't start again for the remainder of the train ride. The interesting detail was that there was no way that the person could hear my command. Why did I do it that way ? It had to do with the circumstances.
    Circumstances indeed. The important thing is that there is no choice or option for the demon. I may have shared here before with my work with troubled teens in our probate court recovery program. On the bus where I was stationed by our Judge as a compliance officer, I had a very nasty little teen boy (14) I made sit next to me. They all knew my testimony of Jesus delivering me instantaneously of addictions. So Lucas one early morning on our ride to school says, “Ryp, you are a drug addict”. I knew that to be a demon talking, so out came the authority of testimony of Jesus (Rev 12:11) by my quiet (kids were sleeping) declaring I am a new creation in Christ. Lucas immediately clamped his hands over his ears and screaming in agony “stop it! stop it!!”. When he calmed down he repeated that once an addict, always an addict. I notched it up a tad and quietly said I was set free by the Blood of Jesus. Repeat performance, hands over ears and writhing in his seat right next to me. This was done 3 times before little Lucas was finally exhausted and turned away from me in his seat. This was one of those circumstances where deliverance ministry was not the time or place. The other kids were amazed at the exchange and one of his housemates said he better get that fixed before the go to church. The house parents are born-again and I later spoke to them of the incident.

  9. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to FireBrand For This Useful Post:

    Colonel (04-29-2019), Ezekiel 33 (04-29-2019), sojourner (04-30-2019)

  10. #6
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    Like Firebrand mentioned, a demon cannot disobey a command spoken in Jesus' name in faith, even if the command is inaudible to the people present. Which simply means that any noise or commotion added will be for the sake of the people present and not because of the demon in and of itself. In my experience it might take seconds before the demon obeys, and it has to do so, and then it might be tempting to act as if the command itself wasn't enough. Arguing with it might remove the faith aspect to the command given or it might give the demon opportunity for making a lot of noise and bring attention to itself rather than to the person being delivered from it. Sticking with the command having been issued in faith can be vital.

  11. #7
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan
    Posts
    3,970
    Thanked: 2924
    And then of course, we also have to deal with scripture:
    Acts 8:6-8 (NKJV)

    6 And the multitudes with one accord heeded the things spoken by Philip, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 7 For unclean spirits, crying with a loud voice, came out of many who were possessed; and many who were paralyzed and lame were healed. 8 And there was great joy in that city.
    This has been what I have encountered. We both have the same Holy Spirit living in us and working through us. Maybe you walk more powerfully in the Spirit than I do. I have only had a few who came right out without a fight.

    During a deliverance, I know they have to leave, they know they have to leave but they often resist and try to convince you that they are staying. All I know to do is to stand on the word of God and depend on the Spirit if I may need to do something different.

  12. #8
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    And then of course, we also have to deal with scripture:

    This has been what I have encountered. We both have the same Holy Spirit living in us and working through us. Maybe you walk more powerfully in the Spirit than I do. I have only had a few who came right out without a fight.

    During a deliverance, I know they have to leave, they know they have to leave but they often resist and try to convince you that they are staying. All I know to do is to stand on the word of God and depend on the Spirit if I may need to do something different.
    The above account was just an example. There is also "this type doesn't leave without prayer and fasting". The word fasting isn't there in the earliest manuscripts but the word prayer is in one of the accounts which makes that part sure. I think that has to do with the connection between the person and the demons. Meaning that it's not useful to cast out the demon until the person is ready because the person will let the demon(s) back in again. Which requires prayer in the broader sense which also includes praying together, counselling etc. Attempting to cast out the demon without those things might result in a struggle where the person struggles along with the demon rather than against the demon. Which is something that one would like to avoid.

    I've also seen demons leave people a few times without any command being spoken, just the presence of God combined with a general change in the person's heart.

    Acts 19:12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them.

    In this verse, the presence or power of God went from the handkerchiefs and aprons and the evil spirits simply left.

    I've also seen people ask their demons to leave because they had been convinced of the truthfulness of the gospel at a point where they already knew very well the content of the gospel.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Colonel For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (04-29-2019)

  14. #9
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan
    Posts
    3,970
    Thanked: 2924
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    The above account was just an example. There is also "this type doesn't leave without prayer and fasting". The word fasting isn't there in the earliest manuscripts but the word prayer is in one of the accounts which makes that part sure. I think that has to do with the connection between the person and the demons. Meaning that it's not useful to cast out the demon until the person is ready because the person will let the demon(s) back in again. Which requires prayer in the broader sense which also includes praying together, counselling etc. Attempting to cast out the demon without those things might result in a struggle where the person struggles along with the demon rather than against the demon. Which is something that one would like to avoid.

    I've also seen demons leave people a few times without any command being spoken, just the presence of God combined with a general change in the person's heart.

    Acts 19:12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them.

    In this verse, the presence or power of God went from the handkerchiefs and aprons and the evil spirits simply left.

    I've also seen people ask their demons to leave because they had been convinced of the truthfulness of the gospel at a point where they already knew very well the content of the gospel.
    19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, “Why could we not cast it out?”

    20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. 21 However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.”

    The best teaching I have heard on this passage was showing that verse 21 is saying "However, this kind of unbelief does not go out except by prayer and fasting".

    Jesus told them straight out that it would not come out because of their unbelief. Another way to look at it is that we need to be in constant prayer and fasting in order to clearly hear the Spirit leading us when dealing with some of these stronger spirits. Jesus lived a lifestyle of prayer and fasting. He was in tune with the Spirit at all times. We need to also get to that point.

    The thing is, neither way is wrong. You cannot put the Holy Spirit in a box. The main thing is that you set people free.

    I don't believe that your comment about it not being useful to cast them out until the person is ready is scriptural.

    It is a truth that Jesus taught that if the house is not filled with the Holy Spirit then they can come back, however that did not stop Paul from casting the spirit of divination out of the slave girl.

    Great discussion!!!


  15. #10
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    When people are so connected to their demons that they will let them back in again after their being cast out of them then something more than just deliverance has to happen. At the very least they need to be taught about the possibility of their returning again and what to do to avoid that. That's counselling. That can happen before the demon is cast out or it can happen after the demon is cast out. Sometimes it might be a good idea to talk about that before the demon is cast out so that one doesn't risk complete failure at getting the point across afterwards which means that the person will be worse off eventually.

    "this unbelief doesn't go out except by prayer and fasting" would solve the problem with what it means if it's referring to a demon but I don't think it fits the language used. We know that there are different types of demons (unclean, diseases etc) but nowhere does Jesus talk about different kinds of unbelief. Nor does he talk about unbelief going out of someone, the language fits a demon being cast out. So I find that interpretation to be very speculative.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Colonel For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (04-29-2019)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
You can forget about unexpected repair costs with an extended service contract for your Saab. Many vehicle repairs can cost thousands of dollars in unexpected expense, now may be the time to consider an extended service plan for your vehicle.