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Thread: Christian cult?

  1. #1
    Frozen Chosen A.J.'s Avatar
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    Christian cult?

    A friend of mine gave me this to watch. Could I get some feedback on it please?

    The Largest Christian Cult You've Never Heard Of

    with M Barbara Hansell






  2. #2
    First of all, this guy Michael Boehm is a bit of a knucklehead. He put out a lot of misinformation on Kenneth Hagin and the WoF. He claims that Kenneth Hagin read books by Phineas Quimby and brought his New Thought stuff into the church, and he made that claim with ZERO evidence. He also claims that Joyce Meyer has a $23,000 jewel encrusted toilet (it was a French commode - a chest of drawers) and that "Covering Theology" is widespread in the WoF movement, which is completely untrue.


    Second, the NAR is a movement, and as such it can't be a cult. There is no one person in charge, there is no set organization, and there is no set creed or statement of faith. That means that one NAR church might conduct ministry completely different from another, so while a few churches might have an autocratic leadership others might be much more open to dissenting viewpoints. I'm not NAR and I don't agree with the whole 7 mountains thing, but that doesn't make them a cult. It just means that they believe things that others don't believe, which you could say about just about any religious organization. To my knowledge NAR churches do hold to the essential doctrines of the faith, and therefore they're not teaching heresy.

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  4. #3
    The definition of a cult according to Ravi Zacharias is "anything that deviates from the work and person of Jesus Christ or adds to it."

    A cult is not just a group that we dont like because they are "not of us."

    Adding link for context. Ravi was asked if the Catholic Church was a cult. Rather than just give a yes or no, he explains the 3-levels of depth necessary to answer the question.

    Now take note, Ravi has mastered the art of dealing diplomatically and with precision, defining terms and not just jumping into juvenile labelling by amateurish "apologists" who blast their buckshot all over the place.

    Last edited by Jonathan david; 04-24-2018 at 11:34 AM.

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  6. #4
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    HH always start out by declaring something to be false or heresy or cultish....I prefer teaching that leaves ME to formulate that conclusion...

    She starts out pointing out deceptions in the Chuck Pierce book which I have not read, nor do I listen to him....

    Thirdly, as noted above a cult has a leader controlling factor that demands strict obedience and this movement did no such thing...

    I would add that it has been my observation that some people love to join a movement as if it is a cult meaning they do not analyze or investigate or recognize the Spirit of God is not leading them...I would say people that are Spirit led will not make any allegiance to a 'movement' or group beyond the association the Spirit leads them to have.

    I visited TACF and was blessed by the joy and liberty I experienced...Any church or movement can become a 'cult' to a person who is inclined to desire one.

    Some respond to their own pastor or denomination with a cult like mindset despite the fact that he nor the denomination is one. When anyone uses fear and tells me to NOT listen to such and such or go so in so, I step back....The same Spirit that leads us to truth has NOT given us a spirit of fear but has, in fact, set us free from it....cults always operate with an element of fear to control..

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  8. #5
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jew and Greek View Post
    ...and that "Covering Theology" is widespread in the WoF movement, which is completely untrue.
    I might have to disagree with you on that one somewhat depending on what is meant. I've seen some real abuses of being 'under cover' in the WoF movement, even against myself personally.

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  10. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    I might have to disagree with you on that one somewhat depending on what is meant. I've seen some real abuses of being 'under cover' in the WoF movement, even against myself personally.
    Care to elaborate?


    .
    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity (futility) of their mind, having the understanding darkened...
    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly...
    (Psalm 1)

  11. #7
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodismyJudge View Post
    Care to elaborate?
    I have to say every WoF church I was a part of even including an AOG that wasn't WoF per se had very authoritarian pastors that dealt with basically an iron hand. They taught 'under cover' in a way that could get almost abusive if you were on the receiving end of it. One church I was the associate pastor and the pastor was one of my best friends and he kicked me out of the church on the spot during a prayer meeting when I disagreed with him on something publicly. The words were barely out of my mouth when he told me to get out. I bolded that above to emphasize how they led. I even saw it in WoF teachers that weren't pastors, etc. Very unloving in their execution of their 'authority'. It was pervasive. And a lot of times it wasn't evident unless you inadvertently 'crossed' it. Then you got the full brunt of it. I was WoF since '77. I've seen a lot.

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  13. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    I have to say every WoF church I was a part of even including an AOG that wasn't WoF per se had very authoritarian pastors that dealt with basically an iron hand. They taught 'under cover' in a way that could get almost abusive if you were on the receiving end of it. One church I was the associate pastor and the pastor was one of my best friends and he kicked me out of the church on the spot during a prayer meeting when I disagreed with him on something publicly. The words were barely out of my mouth when he told me to get out. I bolded that above to emphasize how they led. I even saw it in WoF teachers that weren't pastors, etc. Very unloving in their execution of their 'authority'. It was pervasive. And a lot of times it wasn't evident unless you inadvertently 'crossed' it. Then you got the full brunt of it. I was WoF since '77. I've seen a lot.
    Wow. I didn't know that.

    I'm sorry you had to experience that.

    Were any of them younger in age or in ministry at the time?


    .
    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity (futility) of their mind, having the understanding darkened...
    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly...
    (Psalm 1)

  14. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    I have to say every WoF church I was a part of even including an AOG that wasn't WoF per se had very authoritarian pastors that dealt with basically an iron hand. They taught 'under cover' in a way that could get almost abusive if you were on the receiving end of it. One church I was the associate pastor and the pastor was one of my best friends and he kicked me out of the church on the spot during a prayer meeting when I disagreed with him on something publicly. The words were barely out of my mouth when he told me to get out. I bolded that above to emphasize how they led. I even saw it in WoF teachers that weren't pastors, etc. Very unloving in their execution of their 'authority'. It was pervasive. And a lot of times it wasn't evident unless you inadvertently 'crossed' it. Then you got the full brunt of it. I was WoF since '77. I've seen a lot.
    I got thru halfway of the video, will listen more if time permits...

    I was a part of a church about fourteen years ago that was in the NAR movement...the pastor was a Rhema graduate, I might add, so his teaching was a mix of WOF and NAR, which to him complimented each other... anyway, the church was heavy into the Chuck Pierce teachings and stressed the position of the modern-day apostles and prophets (as believed by the NAR) leading the Church and all the other five fold ministries (evangelist, pastors, teachers) following their lead. Something was not right about how that was presented, and although they were not "abusive" as how we would understand spiritual abuse, there is DEFINITELY a mindset you have to have in order to be a part of that church/movement. It went against the Biblical foundation I had, and Holy Spirit showed me things that led me to leave.

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  16. #10
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodismyJudge View Post
    Wow. I didn't know that.

    I'm sorry you had to experience that.

    Were any of them younger in age or in ministry at the time?


    .
    Well, some were and some weren't. Back in the 80s there was just this 'authoritarian' attitude that I saw among many WoF leaders. I'm not saying it to bash WoF, it's just the way it was. Heck, I even had that attitude somewhat because I was around it and 'taught' it. Once I started being the target of it it was different. I think a lot of it came from teachers like Copeland (and I like Copeland, this isn't a bash of him) and others and it flowed down to the pastors thinking this is how they were supposed to be in their churches. You know how hard nosed he was about some things and you just can't be a pastor and be like that. Well you can, and many of the churches thrived. But I'd never sit under anyone like that again.

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