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Originally Posted by
Colonel
In general I think that living in sin can lead to sickness but sickness doesn't demonstrate that sin is present.
Absolutely. We live in a fallen world and are subject to being attacked by the devil and subject to the fallen nature of this world.
Jesus addressed this a couple of places. Did this happen to these people because they were sinners? And Jesus made it clear that sin wasn't the issue, and unless they repent they would likewise perish (Luke 13). Another time the disciples asked if a man was born that way because he (as if he could sin in the womb?) or his parents sinned. Jesus said neither (John 9).
I'm not saying that the cause couldn't be sin though. Sin does open the door to the devil. But it's clearly not always the case.
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Look at 1 Cor 11:30-32...
For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep.
But if we judge ourselves rightly, we should not be judged.
But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord in order that we
may not be condemned along with the world.
A believer can "quench" the Spirit.
A believer can "grieve" the Spirit.
A believer can spiritually ignore the Spirit's leading and directing.
As a believer with a free will, God has given us the ability to choose.
We can open and close doors.
We can walk in obedience, or walk in sin.
A Christian who sins willfully will open a door and find it hard to shut it.
Case and point, a believer who is cheating on his wife, and is enjoying the affair, will probably not have a strong desire to quit.
The devil has a legal right to enter into this person's life and set up shop.
A demonic stronghold does not gain entrance because we have sinned. At times we all sin.
It takes it's hold because the believer refuses to repent, and continues in the sin habitually over a prolonged period of time.
If we would judge ourselves which corresponds to self-examination, come to our senses and repent, and seek out others for prayer and support, the benefit of such examination is we would not be judged. God's judgment on nations and individual persons is well documented in Scripture. There are accounts that the judgments of God have taken the form of physical illness and even death on certain biblical figures.
The word sleep mentioned in the above verse is referring to death, and always refers to the death of believers.
Believers who continue to give place to the devil and live a life-style of rebellion and in prolonged sinning, put themselves in a dangerous position. They may come to their senses and exercise their own judgment upon themselves, or they may await God's judgment, not in a sense of being eternally condemned along with the unbelieving world, but in severe chastisement as children of the Father.
I will not speculate nor draw a conclusion if pastor Eddie Long examined himself in the light of Scripture, repented of the sin which he was involved with, or if God dealt with the man. I simply do know and will leave that whole matter in the hands of God.
One thing I do know, there seems to be a lack or a healthy dose of "The Fear of the Lord in the church here in the west.
It really is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the God. No wonder Scripture says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
If you put God First, you have Him at Last.
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That verse from 1 Cor 11 is the one I had in mind. I'm not so sure that most Christians have ever been in the place to begin with that the Corinthians lost. It's not like one becomes a Christian then one cannot become sick or die prematurely unless one starts living in sin. The Corinthians had an individual faith for health that most today don't and/or they were under the protection of the church's corporate anointing, something that I think we see little of today.
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Originally Posted by
LionHeart
Brother Hagin said he prayed for two Pastors one in his thirties and one in his fifties who were sick unto death. He said God told him that He could not heal them. Hagin protested saying they were not that old and should not die. God told him the reason they were going to die was they never treated their wives properly. That's a true Hagin story.
Well Hagin had a specific word . He wasnt speculating. In this case we dont so why even touch it ?
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New Living Translation I Corinthains 10
Lessons from Israel’s Idolatry
1I don’t want you to forget, dear brothers and sisters,a about our ancestors in the wilderness long ago. All of them were guided by a cloud that moved ahead of them, and all of them walked through the sea on dry ground. 2In the cloud and in the sea, all of them were baptized as followers of Moses. 3 All of them ate the same spiritual food, 4and all of them drank the same spiritual water. For they drank from the spiritual rock that traveled with them, and that rock was Christ. 5 Yet God was not pleased with most of them, and their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
6 These things happened as a warning to us, so that we would not crave evil things as they did, 7 or worship idols as some of them did. As the Scriptures say, “The people celebrated with feasting and drinking, and they indulged in pagan revelry.” 8 And we must not engage in sexual immorality as some of them did, causing 23,000 of them to die in one day.
9 Nor should we put Christc to the test, as some of them did and then died from snakebites. 10 And don’t grumble as some of them did, and then were destroyed by the angel of death. 11 These things happened to them as examples for us. They were written down to warn us who live at the end of the age.
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We can't do a Creflo Dollar cover up for Eddie. He was living on the down low and he paid for it with his life. Why can't we go there ? It's a good lesson for those who think they can live like that and get away with it. When it's a drug overdose or aids the public should know about it. They were public figures who drew their funds and support from the public. It's not to shame them. It's a warning to those others who are living like dogs and preaching. A young black preacher fell dead in his hotel room from an overdose. His church and family tried to cover it up for months until the toxicology reports verified that it was indeed an overdose. In their efforts to protect the Man of God's reputation they did a disservice to all those who followed him as their Pastor.
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Originally Posted by
LionHeart
►
New Living Translation I Corinthains 10
Lessons from Israel’s Idolatry
1 I don’t want you to forget, dear brothers and sisters,a about our ancestors in the wilderness long ago. All of them were guided by a cloud that moved ahead of them, and all of them walked through the sea on dry ground. 2In the cloud and in the sea, all of them were baptized as followers of Moses. 3 All of them ate the same spiritual food, 4and all of them drank the same spiritual water. For they drank from the spiritual rock that traveled with them, and that rock was Christ. 5 Yet God was not pleased with most of them, and their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
6 These things happened as a warning to us, so that we would not crave evil things as they did, 7 or worship idols as some of them did. As the Scriptures say, “The people celebrated with feasting and drinking, and they indulged in pagan revelry.” 8 And we must not engage in sexual immorality as some of them did, causing 23,000 of them to die in one day.
9 Nor should we put Christc to the test, as some of them did and then died from snakebites. 10 And don’t grumble as some of them did, and then were destroyed by the angel of death. 11 These things happened to them as examples for us. They were written down to warn us who live at the end of the age.
I don't understand why many believers choose to ignore these verses because we live in the new covenant yet Paul doesn't ignore them
Paul who knew about grace more than anyone uses very powerful OT scripture to WARN NT believers about wilful sin and rebellion and the consequences and yet we have NT ministers and christians who say 'we are under grace now so there is no judgement or punishment '
Who do we believe ...the great apostle of grace Paul or some modern 'grace' preachers who either refuse to preach on these verses or spin them away
Paul writes to christians: v1 - I don’t want you to forget, dear brothers and sisters....
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All I know about Eddie Long is what I read and heard in the news....As Bap said, unless we really KNOW why go there about a specific person..
I agree that covering is a BAD thing....
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