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Thread: God and illegitimate children

  1. #31
    I imagine that in primitive communal societies (such as those of Native Americans), having a single parent had fewer adverse consequences, as there were always adult males and females available to assume the role of surrogate caregiver, but in today's nuclear-family-based societies, it would seem that having two permanent adult caregivers living with the child is very important.

    This study concludes that single mothers suffer depression to a higher degree than married mothers:
    Bivariate analyses showed that, compared to married mothers, single mothers were more likely to have suffered an episode of depression (12-month prevalence), to report higher levels of chronic stress, more recent life events and a greater number of childhood adversities. Single mothers also reported lower levels of perceived social support, social involvement and frequency of contact with friends and family than married mothers. The results of the multivariate analyses showed that, together, stress and social support account for almost 40% of the relationship between single- parent status and depression. We also found a conditional effect of stress on depression by family structure. Life events were more strongly related to depression in married than in single mothers. -- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12910340

    And this study (based on a small sample set) suggests that children of depressed single mothers are more likely to suffer behavioral problems:
    The findings indicated that mothers who felt increased depressive symptoms were likely to have children with increased behavior problems. Also significant in the data is that mothers in this study who had suicidal thoughts had children who are also likely to have recurring thoughts of death or suicide. These findings highlight the need for increased programs to support families, mothers with depression, and increased access to mental health resources.
    -- http://sophia.stkate.edu/cgi/viewcon...ext=msw_papers


    I don't think any of this is surprising: It seems obvious that a stable, secure, two-parent family is beneficial to the children. However, many children raised by a single parent have grown up to be happy successful adults.

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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Why don't people read my OP very slowly considering that I made it clear that the parents were at fault and God also instantly loves children born out of wedlock.

    It seems people were ready to pounce because I used the word illegitimate. That was the point....regardless of everything else they are illegitimate because God only destined children from marriage.

    Does he redeem every situation.....YES - DEFINITELY and he redeems illegitimate kids

    Can we not discuss genuine biblical realities without people being PC offended.
    TT.....this came up before some years ago and I thought it was probably a cultural/language/idiom thing. Maybe not. So.........I abhor PC. Can't stand it. I'm a LOT of things, but I'm NOT PC.

    So let me help paint a picture for you here. At one time in most western cultures, being born out of wedlock carried tons of baggage and shame. Other children tormented children born out of wedlock, and the usage of the word, "bastard" was used as a slur. That is probably why "bastard" is actually used as a CURSE word as I type this. Literally. In polite society, just as the word, "negro" was no longer used to describe a black person, the word, "bastard" was no longer used to describe an innocent child born out of wedlock. The word, "negro" really only means "black" in Spanish and Portugese, but it carries a negative connotation, especially in former slave-trading nations. So in other words, "illegitimate" and "bastard" were simply done away with, because regardless of how the bible uses the term, "bastard", culture and society don't recognize the word as a way to describe a person. It basically puts a label and a shame on them.

    I am a little amazed that there is such ignorance on this topic when it is clearly identified in the OT as a major curse

    The fruit on society has been horrendous and has opened the door to much satanic activity but we are too precious about being offended by a pc word.

    The Lords mercy is he redeems out of wedlock kids but the whole point is that they are illegitimate from Gods original position of children born in marriage
    Brother, I'm not sure what ignorance you're referring to. I don't think there's a person posting here that does not recognize the fruit of entire generations of young people being born without the benefit of a two-parent household. This has literally crippled our inner cities. And unfortunately, many blacks do not recognize this as the genesis of the vast majority of social problems that wreak havoc on the inner cities, and instead point the finger at white people.

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  5. #33
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    Two disclaimers before I dare post something in this particular thread yet another time.

    1) I'm not trying to debate any post or part of any post in this thread. I am however quoting a passage that discusses parents, children and the concept of something being holy in some context.

    2) The following scripture should set the background for dealing with some of Paul's writings :

    2 Peter 3:16 His (Paul's) letters contain some things that are hard to understand

    Okay, now that I'm finished with my disclaimers, here is the passage in question :

    2 Cor 7:14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy

    There are a few things that the above verse cannot mean. First, it cannot mean that the unbelieving husband is sanctified in the sense that he is now pleasing to God and will therefore go to heaven when he dies, despite his being an unbeliever. It cannot mean that the unbelieving husband, despite his having the nature of a sinner, is suddenly born again based on his being married to the believing wife.

    If the problem is that the children are unholy and are made holy because the unbelieving husband is married to the believing wife, then that does not imply that wedlock in and of itself implies that the child is holy and the absence of wedlock implies that the child is unholy. To the contrary, if both parents are married unbelievers, then the child would still be said to be unholy. The child is not made holy on the basis of the marriage, it is made holy on the basis of the wife belng a believer.

    What does that mean ? Does it mean that the child is going to heaven because one of the parents is a believer and that it would go to hell if both parents were unbelievers ? Nope, that is just as out of sync with the logic of the new covenant as the notion that the unbelieving husband would enter heaven because of his believing wife is.

    Does it mean that the child is not defiled because of the believing wife but that it would be defiled if both parents were unbelievers ? I'm not sure what that would technically mean but if it does mean that then it still doesn't mean that that is tied to it being born out of wedlock or not. As we saw, it is tied to one of the parents being a believer.

    What does the scripture mean ? I personally think that this is in relation to the protection that the local church afforded. The Corinthians are said elsewhere to get sick and die because they took communion irreverently, meaning God's protection on them was removed and they were back to being exposed to the elements of this world and back then most people got sick and died prematurely. They had God's promises that were accessible by faith but they also had a level of communal protection based on being part of the local church and being in the presence of the Spirit of God, a presence that was to their benefit as long as they avoided sinning in that presence like Ananias and Sapphira did. This was extended also to unbelieving spouses since they would naturally be part of the household. Just like God's presence may move to convict believers who are in his presence but have mercy with sinners who are in the same presence and having patience with them to repent and believe. The same way, this protection was extended to the children on account of the believing wife, whether they were believers themselves or perhaps had to obey their unbelieving father and stay in line with his non-belief for the time being.

    Okay, now I've discussed one passage that I could think of that discusses this in the context of the new covenant. There may be others that discuss this in a slightly different context though I can't think of any at the moment.

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  7. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatchyUsername View Post

    So let me help paint a picture for you here. At one time in most western cultures, being born out of wedlock carried tons of baggage and shame. Other children tormented children born out of wedlock, and the usage of the word, "bastard" was used as a slur. That is probably why "bastard" is actually used as a CURSE word as I type this. Literally. In polite society, just as the word, "negro" was no longer used to describe a black person, the word, "bastard" was no longer used to describe an innocent child born out of wedlock. The word, "negro" really only means "black" in Spanish and Portugese, but it carries a negative connotation, especially in former slave-trading nations. So in other words, "illegitimate" and "bastard" were simply done away with, because regardless of how the bible uses the term, "bastard", culture and society don't recognize the word as a way to describe a person. It basically puts a label and a shame on them.
    Technically, "born out of wedlock" implies that the child is born at a moment in time when its parents are not yet married. The term bastard has typically been applied first and foremostly to children whose father is married to an other woman than the mother. Then to children whose parents are currently not married, not to children whose parents are currently married but were not yet married at the time of the child's birth.

    If we remove the kind of issues that Susan and njtom have been talking about and try to address solely the question of how God sees things in terms of sin and judgment, then the moment of conception when the child is conceived should be the natural focus. That is when the parents are either married and are conceiving a child in a state of righteousness or they are not married and are conceiving a child in sin. What things look like nine months later should be irrelevant to that.

    My grandparents conceived my mother out of wedlock and got married before my mother was born. Most people were okay with that at that time, 1944. That doesn't change the fact that they were sinning when the child was conceived however. How any of this would make my mother defiled in and of itself, I have no idea. Whether the standard is set at conception, at birth or at any moment in time when the child's parents are either married or not married.

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  9. #35
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Thanks Catchy for explaining that and I see your point. It definitely applies in relation to racial abuse
    Writing below for everyone as I believe Catchy understands this area more than most

    IMO Christians can see problems that kids born outside of marriage have caused in the ghettoes etc but they mostly cannot see the spiritual problems that are generated in regard to open doors for satan to attack.

    The world even celebrates successful unmarried woman having children because they have the wealth to give them a good life but there are still spiritual curses involved when a child is born

    The problem is we now cannot say 'gay sex is sin' because of the stigma on gays and they have committed suicide due to being told they are sinners.
    Even calling people sinners can get you in trouble. Society has now gone to the other extreme

    Because all of society has embraced ungodly lifestyles many christians have lowered their stance. Yes babies are lovely and cute and emotions are swayed but God still sees a child born from sin.
    In the spiritual realm satanic doors are opened in children born out of wedlock that are not opened to children born in marriage.

    This has an overall impact on homes, towns, states and even the nation. Curses are released onto all of society due to this transgression

    It was so serious that a curse remained for 10 generations - these curses are still here in the NT and can only be broken by the blood of Christ. They did not disappear automatically when Jesus died
    Deuteronomy 23:2 (NKJV) - One of illegitimate birth shall not enter the assembly of the Lord; even to the tenth generation none of his descendants shall enter the assembly of the Lord.

    Below psalm was for children born inside marriage
    Psalm 127:3 - Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward.

    John brought up this scripture
    Malachi 2:15 - Has not the one God made you? You belong to him in body and spirit. And what does the one God seek? Godly offspring. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful to the wife of your youth.

    There are godly offspring and ungodly offspring - we find that offensive but that is how God sees it



    I am bringing this up on a mature Christian forum for discussion not advocating we go around telling unwed parents their kids are ungodly

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  11. #36
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curly sue View Post
    Cardinal, let me start off this way. (I'm not stirring the pot.) Does God dispense judgment on the earth today as He did in OT days, or are folks just reaping what they sow?

    I do not doubt that we have a lot of troubled youths today, however it seems like they get a lot more media coverage than the many, many teens who do well.

    It's the reaping of judgment...reaping includes giving demons permission to attack babies and families born outside of marriage

    If you multiply that by the current rate of hundreds of thousands even maybe millions who have children outside of marriage, major demonic doors are opened which does affect society with all sorts of evil as well as physical, mental, and emotional illnesses

    Jesus dying on the cross does not stop society reaping its sinful behaviour

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  13. #37
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    In the NT we find young children possessed by a devil. That is not a pretty picture we can put our fingers in our ears and go lalalalalala and pretend its not there
    Now we don't know why exactly it happened but it is clear God wants us to know that even 'innocent' children can be severely demonised

    What we do know is all our nice cute pc flowery language about how all children are innocent and pure is false. Evil had access to torment young children

    Was it God's perfect will - NO
    Jesus has the answer - YES

    But it happened because either the parents or someone else in that generation opened demonic doors


    And its happening today and it will get worse. When Jesus returns sin will come to its ultimate and there will be ultimate judgement and a big part will be because of the many demons released through children born outside marriage and the curses involved with that

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  15. #38
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    On reflection I acknowledge that I came across angry, frustrated and harsh with certain comments.
    I apologise for those comments and to those I have offended please forgive me.


    I still believe the basic emphasis of my thread as it is centred on scripture

    One of my closest friends was born out of wedlock and he became a christian and through his influence I was saved. He is now a pastor so I have seen the wonderful redemption that God can bring to those in this situation




    You know deep down I am such a gentle soul ...I will stick to comedy and leave the intellectual stuff to others

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  17. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    On reflection I acknowledge that I came across angry, frustrated and harsh with certain comments.
    I apologise for those comments and to those I have offended please forgive me.

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  19. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal
    You know deep down I am such a gentle soul ...I will stick to comedy and leave the intellectual stuff to others
    THANK YOU...stay in yer lane!!

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