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Thread: So I just heard TD Jakes tell a couple to get divorced...

  1. #81
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    So why then does he make the exception for the adultery that you have repeatedly highlighted . If God wanted you to suffer for his glory wouldnt he expect you to put up with an adulterous spouse for his sake .
    Notice even with the exception Jesus makes it clear that in the beginning that was not the way God ordained it...and that divorce is the result of the hardening of the heart. God allows it in that one case but that does not EQUAL expects it or even advises it...honestly I don't have a revelation of why adultery is the exception...I just know it is..Jesus seems to be saying that even then one should not allow their hearts to be hardened..

    Suffer for His glory? That is not actually what I am saying...He wants me to die to my carnality for His glory...Jesus being our example..what better place to learn that than in marriage?

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    Senior Member Lively Stone's Avatar
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    A man (or a woman) can commit adultery without ever having a sexual or emotional affair. There is such a thing as spiritual adultery. Abdicating one's vows by simply not loving one's spouse is a form of adultery.

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  5. #83
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lively Stone View Post
    A man (or a woman) can commit adultery without ever having a sexual or emotional affair. There is such a thing as spiritual adultery. Abdicating one's vows by simply not loving one's spouse is a form of adultery.
    Ok, I agree with this
    A man (or a woman) can commit adultery without ever having a sexual or emotional affair.
    This? No...I don't believe that is supported in scripture..
    Abdicating one's vows by simply not loving one's spouse is a form of adultery
    Jesus stated that looking on a woman to lust for her is adultery...but other than that, no. Adultery is always in the context of sexual.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Scripture is very streamlined on this topic. I believe we should agree with IT. As for comparing being single to being married that, to me, is a different topic all together as neither of them are an issue with God but He clearly takes issue with divorce.

    Divorce is an inferior arrangement compared to submitting and surrendering ones self totally to the Lord to love the spouse as Christ loved the church and gave Himself or it..why? Because in the latter God is able to work miracles with people's hearts and keep families in tact and that is HIS desire. Based on scripture and the power of our ALMIGHTY God, I don't believe God would EVER respond to a marital situation the way TD Jakes did..Nor should we. We should point them to the cross, to the transforming power, to FAITH and faithfulness..
    Scripture tells people to get free of slavery if they have the opportunity to get free. That would naturally include slavery imposed within a marriage.

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  9. #85
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Scripture tells people to get free of slavery if they have the opportunity to get free. That would naturally include slavery imposed within a marriage.


    Yea...right...

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  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Notice even with the exception Jesus makes it clear that in the beginning that was not the way God ordained it...and that divorce is the result of the hardening of the heart. God allows it in that one case but that does not EQUAL expects it or even advises it...honestly I don't have a revelation of why adultery is the exception...I just know it is..Jesus seems to be saying that even then one should not allow their hearts to be hardened..

    Suffer for His glory? That is not actually what I am saying...He wants me to die to my carnality for His glory...Jesus being our example..what better place to learn that than in marriage?
    Quest the problem is you have a legalistic view on this matter and the more you write the more obvious it becomes

    Jesus was talking to a bunch of Jews natural men as they were. They lived in a culture where women were regarded just one cut above cattle in their value and men called all the shots pretty much. Most men could care less about women's emotions and women by and large could do little damage to their husbands emotional state aside from committing adultery . That is why Jesus made that comment on the adultery which was in the middle of a discussion on the laws of Moses. In essence it was a Jewish discussion not a Christian one and it was not a one size fits all mandate that governs all cases today

    We know that Jesus later told his disciples that in the Christians context merely looking upon a woman could constitute adultery even if one didn't actually carry it out point being that matters of the heart in the NT are more important than fulfilling the letter of the law ..

    In the new Testament our law is the law of the spirit with the fruit of the spirit being our guideline. So we are not under any OT law . Yes Marriage which is the Joining of a man and a woman remains sacred and should not be trivialized and we are held to an even higher standard but according to the laws of life in the spirit not according to legalism . What may make sense in one context may not make sense in another even if on the surface they look alike ..

    I am not here to hold brief for TD Jakes ... frankly speaking had I been in his position I would likely have handled the matter differently but on the other hand I have seen with my own eyes his commitment to Christian marriage and the endless resources he has produced to that end so I will simply advise that you tread softly before branding him a heretic so flippantly

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  13. #87
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lively Stone View Post
    A man (or a woman) can commit adultery without ever having a sexual or emotional affair. There is such a thing as spiritual adultery. Abdicating one's vows by simply not loving one's spouse is a form of adultery.
    I don't think you can find that in scripture. Jesus did equate lusting for an other person in one's heart to adultery so committing adultery is possible by way of even an imagined person inside one's head but that is different to just being loveless. I don't think Jesus would have placed the bar for divorce as low as "my spouse looked lustfully at some woman today, I could tell" though.

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  15. #88
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post


    Yea...right...
    Why would it not include slavery within marriage if someone is being treated as a slave in every way by their spouse ?

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  17. #89
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Regarding using scriptures legalistically, including Jesus comments on the law of Moses on divorce that the Pharisees used willy nilly to get rid of their wives whenever they wanted. Here is an example of Jesus going in the other direction :

    Mark 2:23 Now it happened that He went through the grainfields on the Sabbath; and as they went His disciples began to pluck the heads of grain. 24 And the Pharisees said to Him, “Look, why do they do what is not lawful on the Sabbath?”
    25 But He said to them, “Have you never read what David did when he was in need and hungry, he and those with him: 26 how he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the showbread, which is not lawful to eat except for the priests, and also gave some to those who were with him?”
    27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”

    Here he circumvents the legalistic reading of two different scriptures in the OT, one pertaining to the showbread and one pertaining to the Sabbath. His point was that the God given institution of the Sabbath was given to be a blessing to man, not so that man could work hard at fulfilling the Sabbath. The same way, the God given institution of marriage was given to be a blessing to man, not so that man could work hard at keeping with that marriage under every circumstance imaginable.

    Note that this is a very general principle and should not be applied indiscriminantly. One cannot simply tell people that "okay, if you want out then go ahead, marriage was made for you and not the other way around". This is still just one small part of the equation and Psalm 119:160 "the sum of your word is truth".

    The sum.

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  19. #90
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Why would it not include slavery within marriage if someone is being treated as a slave in every way by their spouse ?
    OMG..you were serious...

    Ok...well let me just ask...what scriptural basis do you have TO include that?

    The Bible has specific things to say about slavery and specific things regarding marriage...God did put in place the slavery but Jesus said that in the beginning
    God instituted marriage in the Garden...

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