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Thread: So I just heard TD Jakes tell a couple to get divorced...

  1. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Thank you for editing your post...
    Did I? I don't recall, but if I did, I'm glad you are thanking me.

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  3. #72
    Quest, I think you have mistaken me for someone who has something to prove to YOU or anyone else. But you go ahead on, sis. BAP might have it in him, but I sure as heck don't. I'm not trying to debate the sanctity of marriage with you. Clearly divorce has always been a very touchy subject with you, but you'll have to find someone else to fight with. It ain't gonna be me. I'm not divorced, Quest, and don't ever plan on getting divorced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    We should all have our foundation in scripture, not philosophies...Nikos is not always wrong in his warnings...he is just sometimes really rude and sarcastic toward PEOPLE.



    Prove me wrong...prove God condones divorce for any reason other than adultery...prove it scripturally or is it just human reasoning? Something God tells us NOT to rely on?

    Prove me wrong...prove what TD Jakes did in this video is SCRIPTURAL...

    Prove me wrong that TD Jakes a man of God was not obligated to give Godly counsel instead of human psychology..

    Either we stand with scripture or we don't...He did not...

    2 Timothy 3:16
    16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

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  5. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Yep when scripture is viewed thru a legalistic prism based on a single statement , that is true when viewed thru the eyes of the grace of God and a variety of other scriptures , abandonment, non willingness , abuse etc are all factors ... One size does not fit all

    No I am talking about COVENANT principles since you earlier brought up the covenant nature of marriage. I was highlighting the danger inherent in forcing people to try to live up to the ideals of a Covenant when they are barely able to crawl talk less of walk.

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  7. #74
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Yep when scripture is viewed thru a legalistic prism based on a single statement , that is true
    when viewed thru the eyes of the grace of God and a variety of other scriptures , abandonment, non willingness , abuse etc are all factors ... One size does not fit all



    No I am talking about COVENANT principles since you earlier brought up the covenant nature of marriage. I was highlighting the danger inherent in forcing people to try to live up to the ideals of a Covenant when they are barely able to crawl talk less of walk.
    Bap...Jesus and Paul must have been very legalistic..I quote them and rely on their message. You, on the other hand have opted to add to Jesus' word..

    Shall a man divorce his wife for ANY reason...no, except for adultery..now if it is legalistic to take Jesus' literally, especially since there are no other passages that prove I should not, then legalistic I am..

    Show me those other scriptures? Show me where they address DIVORCE...

    So rather than encouraging them to seek Godly counsel, prayer and make the Biblical decision we should tell them to take the unbiblical approach because they are weak? There is no danger in speaking the truth...speaking the truth is what WE are accountable for...them following that truth is between them and God..

    Bap, when men decide their truth is superior to God's they are in a dangerous place. TD opted for his truth that was unbiblical over God's Biblical truth that SETS us free..empowers us to overcome...

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  9. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Bap...Jesus and Paul must have been very legalistic..I quote them and rely on their message. You, on the other hand have opted to add to Jesus' word..

    Shall a man divorce his wife for ANY reason...no, except for adultery..now if it is legalistic to take Jesus' literally, especially since there are no other passages that prove I should not, then legalistic I am..

    Show me those other scriptures? Show me where they address DIVORCE...

    So rather than encouraging them to seek Godly counsel, prayer and make the Biblical decision we should tell them to take the unbiblical approach because they are weak? There is no danger in speaking the truth...speaking the truth is what WE are accountable for...them following that truth is between them and God..

    Bap, when men decide their truth is superior to God's they are in a dangerous place. TD opted for his truth that was unbiblical over God's Biblical truth that SETS us free..empowers us to overcome...
    Ok let me ask you this

    You get married to a man ... he reveals later that he really has no interest in you and only married you cos you were nice and He isn't gay and he isnt committing adultery . On top of that he refuses to work and he permits people to insult you and abuse you in front of him so he is no provider or protector . Otherwise he is a nice guy ...

    Will you continue in the marriage even if there is no adultery ?

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  11. #76
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Matthew 19

    19 Now it came to pass, when Jesus had finished these sayings, that He departed from Galilee and came to the region of Judea beyond the Jordan. 2 And great multitudes followed Him, and He healed them there.

    3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”

    4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

    7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”

    8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality,and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”

    Jesus was very legalistic apparently...

    1 Corinthians 7:10-12
    10 Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. 11 But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

    12 But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her.


    THERE is what God has to say about the believer's marriage...I see no wiggle room for exceptions...wish I did actually, but when I made a decision that the Bible is the inerrant word of God and our guidebook for life I had to be willing to accept the stuff I didn't like...this was one of them. After I accepted it He taught me an amazing lesson of the power of HIS LOVE demonstrated through the sacrifice of surrender to His WILL..His Word...most don't know that because it's not taught..at the time of the married couple's greatest test..when they really DON'T WANT TO be married anymore...do they surrender to faith and obedience to see the miracle or do they run...the church does not teach the power of the surrender, the power of the obedience...they rely instead on the human junk...

    TD missed a great opportunity to actually minister the love and healing of God by telling them there was no hope for the covenant they had entered..that was far sadder than their very troubled relationship. He told the God can't fix this or at least that God does not want to....along with thousands, possibly millions of others who are looking to him for Godly guidance...that is the tragedy of his choice.

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  13. #77
    Senior Member Lively Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    "they should not be forced to obey God's word where they do not have the power or inclination to do so."

    There were definitely some bad issues there...but his counsel was not Biblical..it was carnal. As a minister of GOD his counsel should be Biblical..

    They needed to hear GOD's view on their marriage covenant and the power of God to change us and take the bad and make it good if we trust and follow HIm..not his views on the fact they probably should never have married so divorce is right. As a minister that is what Christians expect from ministers...Godly counsel..not secular..
    Unbelievers do not have the onus on them to obey God. They cannot understand spiritual truths. They do not trust God to help them. We just cannot hold them to God's high standard, and must not expect them to adhere to it.


    John 14:15
    If you love Me, keep My commandments

    1 Corinthians 3:13-16
    When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths.[o] 14 But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means. 15 Those who are spiritual can evaluate all things, but they themselves cannot be evaluated by others. 16 For,

    “Who can know the Lord’s thoughts?
    Who knows enough to teach him?”

    But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.


    1 Corinthians 5:12-13a
    It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. 13 God will judge those on the outside;

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  15. #78
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Ok let me ask you this

    You get married to a man ... he reveals later that he really has no interest in you and only married you cos you were nice and He isn't gay and he isnt committing adultery . On top of that he refuses to work and he permits people to insult you and abuse you in front of him so he is no provider or protector . Otherwise he is a nice guy ...

    Will you continue in the marriage even if there is no adultery ?
    NOW that I understand God wants me to stay for HIS glory...absolutely...God taught me what the church does not..the power of prayer and Agape love...and that HE is always on my side and that HE loves me unconditionally. My identity is in HIM not my spouse...

    The TRUTH does not change with scenarios BAP...that's the whole problem! Everyone thinks they have some unique scenario that changes the truth of what Jesus and Paul said...they don't..His truth stand regardless of the situation..God is faithful to His covenant and He wants us to be like HIM..and He is faithful to the faithful!

    Our happiness and comfort in this life is not God's high priorty...us becoming as HE IS is His agenda...and He does not exit HIS covenant when things get hard or too painful. He never exits His covenant...we might but He never will..and He wants us to be like HIM..so He promises to never leave us or forsake us even when we go through a dark valley...that includes and deeply troubled or even loveless marriage..He promises to give us HIS kind of love to love the unlovely with...that sometimes includes an unlovely spouse.

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  17. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    NOW that I understand God wants me to stay for HIS glory...absolutely...God taught me what the church is not..the power of prayer and Agape love...and that HE is always on my side and that HE loves me unconditionally. My identity is in HIM not my spouse...

    The TRUTH does not change with scenarios BAP...that's the whole problem! Everyone thinks they have some unique scenario that changes the truth of what Jesus and Paul said...they don't..His truth stand regardless of the situation..God is faithful to His covenant and He wants us to be like HIM..and He is faithful to the faithful!

    Our happiness and comfort in this life is not God's high priorty...us becoming as HE IS is His agenda...and He does not exit HIS covenant when things get hard or too painful. He never exits His covenant...we might but He never will..and He wants us to be like HIM..so He promises to never leave us or forsake us even when we go through a dark valley...that includes and deeply troubled or even loveless marriage..He promises to give us HIS kind of love to love the unlovely with...that sometimes includes an unlovely spouse.
    So why then does he make the exception for the adultery that you have repeatedly highlighted . If God wanted you to suffer for his glory wouldnt he expect you to put up with an adulterous spouse for his sake ? While you are at it what about a spouse who regularly uses you as a punching bag . Do you stay cos he isn't committing adultery so that God can get the glory ?

    You said .... Our happiness and comfort in this life is not God's high priority

    I thought Jesus said something about abundant life ? and Paul wrote a lot about unnecessary burdens and Yokes didn't he ? Seems to me like happiness and comfort is pretty high on God's priority list . Am I missing something?


    Like I said ..... Legalism

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  19. #80
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lively Stone View Post
    Unbelievers do not have the onus on them to obey God. They cannot understand spiritual truths. They do not trust God to help them.
    I totally agree with that.. if an unbeliever asks a believer for guidance they truth should still be given..then they are positioned once again to make a choice..

    I would tell them that God loves them and can lead them into a good marriage if they are willing to entrust their life to Him as Lord...

    What matters to God is that WE remain faithful to HIM and His word no matter what...and leave the outcome to Him...

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